Garry Tonon fought again yesterday in MMA

[rmongler]

He has a bad habit of backpedaling out of the pocket right after falling into it, essentially crossing 'no mans land' twice in the same moment and exponentially multiplying his chances of getting cracked for the pleasure; giving his opponent a perfect and safe set up to do so even.

Most peoples instinctual response to the feeling of 'dangerous situation' is 'get out of there', which can steer you wrong in this context; when you get stuck in, the safest thing to do is stay stuck in, go in all the way and start working the clinch. This is something that needs to be reiterated however many times to make sure it sinks in. Even really good strikers can go wrong with this (Perfect example: Wonderboy Thompson is a very talented striker, but his allergy to falling into the clinch against Tyquil hamstrung his attack and set him up multiple times to getting cracked). Mayweather was a great case study for this and it was a crucial piece of his defensive responsibility for stifling his opponents attempts to counter attack his offense. At the very least, he (Tonon) should get into the habit of breaking away through through offset angles when in closer; strait back and forth along the same angle you come in is something you do at long range to play with distance.

Also, he really really needs to get into the habit of keeping his chin tucked and looking out from under his brow; it makes your most vulnerable targets less accessible and cues the neck muscles, making them stronger/stiffer in case of impact, which mitigates whiplash, which mitigates your chances of getting K'ed TFO. It's just plain simply irresponsible not to.

 

[kjg1672]

I was interested in his one-armed arm-in guillotine to darce attempt. This is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've seen one of the DDS guys do an arm-in guillotine without connecting the hands and I'm wondering what the benefit is. Garry had the takedown to the front headlock/cradle combo. Switched to the arm-in guillotine but without the hands connected and the choking arm deep. Stepped over to quasi-mount and dismounted dragging the far leg with him to pull the guy up on his side. He reached through for the darce and the guy blocked it so Tonon went to his back. 2nd round. I'm just windering what that deep one-arm arm-in grip helps with. Gordon Ryan finished a guy with it at an EBI without ever connecting his hands and Geo just used to at Quintet to go from arm-in to no-arm guillotine.

If we're thinking of the same moment of the fight, I thought Garry was using a chin strap to help pass his opponent's z guard, not necessarily trying to get a sub.

 

[rmongler]

I was interested in his one-armed arm-in guillotine to darce attempt. This is maybe the 5th or 6th time I've seen one of the DDS guys do an arm-in guillotine without connecting the hands and I'm wondering what the benefit is. Garry had the takedown to the front headlock/cradle combo. Switched to the arm-in guillotine but without the hands connected and the choking arm deep. Stepped over to quasi-mount and dismounted dragging the far leg with him to pull the guy up on his side. He reached through for the darce and the guy blocked it so Tonon went to his back. 2nd round. I'm just windering what that deep one-arm arm-in grip helps with. Gordon Ryan finished a guy with it at an EBI without ever connecting his hands and Geo just used to at Quintet to go from arm-in to no-arm guillotine.

If we're thinking of the same moment of the fight, I thought Garry was using a chin strap to help pass his opponent's z guard, not necessarily trying to get a sub.

(11:04)

 

[Uchi Mata]

Considering the level of opponent he didn’t really look very good at all. He’s just starting out I know but it was worrying how easily the other guy was able to survive and escape the ground. His striking also looked like it will get him into serious trouble against anyone who knows how to hit. Him rushing in with his jerky head movement wasn’t very good, he should focus on learning how to jab and kick properly.

For the record Tonon is one I my fav guys to watch grapple

I thought his striking looked a lot better in his first fight. All those naked stance switches and long distance, leaping pot shots will get him flattened against anyone decent. And I agree, the fact that he lost control on the ground twice when his subs didn't work doesn't bode terribly well. He's the most salient test case whether or not the sub-only style of 'submission before position' is workable in MMA. One of the reasons I don't really like sub only is I don't think that it is a good grappling style for actual fighting, being on top is super valuable if you can punch each other and Tonon's style just doesn't seem to place much emphasis on staying on top vs. hunting the sub.

 

[mataleaos]

I thought his striking looked a lot better in his first fight. All those naked stance switches and long distance, leaping pot shots will get him flattened against anyone decent. And I agree, the fact that he lost control on the ground twice when his subs didn't work doesn't bode terribly well. He's the most salient test case whether or not the sub-only style of 'submission before position' is workable in MMA. One of the reasons I don't really like sub only is I don't think that it is a good grappling style for actual fighting, being on top is super valuable if you can punch each other and Tonon's style just doesn't seem to place much emphasis on staying on top vs. hunting the sub.

I don't disagree with your premise. I do think some of the heel hook failure was possibly him rushing and not controlling the secondary leg before passing off to the inverted heel hook. I think Tonon is a good representative for that 'submission before position' style but I also think he gives so little fucks across the board that some of the risks he takes could get too conflated with that grappling style as a whole.

 

[Muppettoker]

I thought his striking looked a lot better in his first fight. All those naked stance switches and long distance, leaping pot shots will get him flattened against anyone decent. And I agree, the fact that he lost control on the ground twice when his subs didn't work doesn't bode terribly well. He's the most salient test case whether or not the sub-only style of 'submission before position' is workable in MMA. One of the reasons I don't really like sub only is I don't think that it is a good grappling style for actual fighting, being on top is super valuable if you can punch each other and Tonon's style just doesn't seem to place much emphasis on staying on top vs. hunting the sub.

Agreed on the naked switches, they looked awful.
He was more cautious in his 1st fight and it served him well, he also consolidated mount in the 1st fight.
I’m sure he could out position these guys on the ground if he was commited to it, maybe he became overcofident with how easy his first fight was. I hope this maybe was a bit of a reality check, you would think a guy working with dhanaher would go back a evaluate his last fight a see the big flaws but ‍

 

[ijustwannasurf]

I don't disagree with your premise. I do think some of the heel hook failure was possibly him rushing and not controlling the secondary leg before passing off to the inverted heel hook. I think Tonon is a good representative for that 'submission before position' style but I also think he gives so little fucks across the board that some of the risks he takes could get too conflated with that grappling style as a whole.

In my opinion, Garry is just more cavalier than Gordon and Eddie. Those two have always had more precise set-ups than him.

Also, we've seen the leg control game skyrocket in the short time Garry has been focused on MMA. Having to diversify his training with striking and more wrestling means less reps for jiu-jitsu, old or new. Regardless, I'm excited to see him progress in MMA. And I think OneFC is a great place for him to cut his teeth.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Agreed on the naked switches, they looked awful.
He was more cautious in his 1st fight and it served him well, he also consolidated mount in the 1st fight.
I’m sure he could out position these guys on the ground if he was commited to it, maybe he became overcofident with how easy his first fight was. I hope this maybe was a bit of a reality check, you would think a guy working with dhanaher would go back a evaluate his last fight a see the big flaws but ‍

One other factor is that he's talked a lot about his training being a lot of shootboxing, which is cool, except that usually in shoot boxing once you take someone down you just let them back and go back to striking. I felt like he wasn't doing enough to consolidate position immediately after the TD.

 

[bobjones777]

I see left hooks in Gary's future

 

[biscuitsbrah]

I see left hooks in Gary's future

Lol

He looked... ok
OneFC is such a garbage promotion it’s just really hard to tell where he actually could stand against a decent fighter

 

[yetanother]

Just goes to show you how high the level of grappling is in MMA. Just like everyone says about striking in MMA, you don't have to have years of bjj tourny experience to be an effective grappler in a fight.

The Indian guy just scrambled out from some subs he didn't do anything grappling wise.
It takes an order of magnitude less skill to survive

 

[MaxMMA]

The Indian guy just scrambled out from some subs he didn't do anything grappling wise.
It takes an order of magnitude less skill to survive

You're talking about laying in the turtle position doing nothing, with arms, legs, and neck tucked in.

This guy defended several sub attempts, and exposed his neck and limbs multiple times without being subbed, while scrambling back to his feet.

 

[yetanother]

You're talking about laying in the turtle position doing nothing, with arms, legs, and neck tucked in.

This guy defended several sub attempts, and exposed his neck and limbs multiple times without being subbed, while scrambling back to his feet.

Doesn't tell you a lot about his BJJ in terms what he can actually do offensively or in a BJJ roll. He got saved by the bell in the first round.
I was surprised that he survived the heel hooks, Garry has tapped elite grapplers who where rag dolling him with them in grappling matches.

 

[MaxMMA]

Doesn't tell you a lot about his BJJ in terms what he can actually do offensively or in a BJJ roll. He got saved by the bell in the first round.
I was surprised that he survived the heel hooks, Garry has tapped elite grapplers who where rag dolling him with them in grappling matches.

Like it's commonly said about striking in MMA. It doesn't matter what he can do in a bjj match. In an MMA fight he thrwarted multiple sub attempts and changed position on Tonon multiple times. Tonon is one of the best sub grapplers in the world and he had to pull out his A game to hold down and finally sub that fighter.

Interpret that however you want but I see that as a testiment to that fighters level of bjj.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Like it's commonly said about striking in MMA. It doesn't matter what he can do in a bjj match. In an MMA fight he thrwarted multiple sub attempts and changed position on Tonon multiple times. Tonon is one of the best sub grapplers in the world and he had to pull out his A game to hold down and finally sub that fighter.

Interpret that however you want but I see that as a testiment to that fighters level of bjj.

I think he was not tryng his hard to keep the fight on the ground, the whole second round very few attempts to take the fight to the ground, the times he tried to get it to the ground, he managed it, though the hindu dude got up a couple of tmes, as mataleos said, I think he mightve lost the first hh attemped because he rushed it and got overexited, this wouldnt happen in a grappling match, and in that position a grppling match and an mma fight dont have much difference.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

I thought his striking looked a lot better in his first fight. All those naked stance switches and long distance, leaping pot shots will get him flattened against anyone decent. And I agree, the fact that he lost control on the ground twice when his subs didn't work doesn't bode terribly well. He's the most salient test case whether or not the sub-only style of 'submission before position' is workable in MMA. One of the reasons I don't really like sub only is I don't think that it is a good grappling style for actual fighting, being on top is super valuable if you can punch each other and Tonon's style just doesn't seem to place much emphasis on staying on top vs. hunting the sub.

I enjoy sub only as competition but agree %100 percent on it not bring best for real fighting.

There's a school near me with some really good guys. The entire school is of the mindset that position doesn't matter if you can't submit them. They will let you get mount or back and just tuck their arms so you can't sub them.

Again there are some badass dudes there and very good sub only competitors. However, when they try to represent it as more "street practical" than traditional bjj schools it honestly seems downright silly. When they are in their shell on the bottom hiding their arms and neck, there is a total disregard for strikes.

But more on topic of the thread I was a bit disappointed in his striking and his control. I was pretty optimistic about his striking after his first fight.

 

[leaf22]

I thought his striking looked a lot better in his first fight. All those naked stance switches and long distance, leaping pot shots will get him flattened against anyone decent. And I agree, the fact that he lost control on the ground twice when his subs didn't work doesn't bode terribly well. He's the most salient test case whether or not the sub-only style of 'submission before position' is workable in MMA. One of the reasons I don't really like sub only is I don't think that it is a good grappling style for actual fighting, being on top is super valuable if you can punch each other and Tonon's style just doesn't seem to place much emphasis on staying on top vs. hunting the sub.

I’m no striker, but looked to me like he was experimenting with some new tools here with his striking. I think the first 5 fights or so he’ll be trying g new techs and strategies, trying to work out what exactly works for him, before zones in on what exactly his ideal style is.

As for the grappling, I agree,he lost position too easy.
Danaher was playing it off like it was s strategy to do ‘cumulative damage’ and that the heel hooks in the beginning led to the RNC at the end. I’m dubious about that tho.
Don’t think the Indian lad had much ill effects from those sub attempts.

Be interesting to see if Garry changes his grappling approach and starts to use a more Damian Maia style conservative position game, or just keeps flat out jumping on subs

 

[spiderguardman]

He looked like a non explosive Phil Davis in there.
But i enjoyed the fight, some really good scrambles.
The indian dude looked strong, wonder if he had a kushti backround.

 

[2arctanx]

indians are nothing more than cans for Philippinos and Thais to beat up. the fact that he lasted this long against tonon is impressive.

 

[mataleaos]

As for the grappling, I agree,he lost position too easy.
Danaher was playing it off like it was s strategy to do ‘cumulative damage’ and that the heel hooks in the beginning led to the RNC at the end. I’m dubious about that tho.
Don’t think the Indian lad had much ill effects from those sub attempts.

Be interesting to see if Garry changes his grappling approach and starts to use a more Damian Maia style conservative position game, or just keeps flat out jumping on subs

Tonon has always played fast and loose. It's a part of his personality and I really don't think he'll change that much as far as his grappling game goes. He may become slightly more conservative but in terms of how he attacks subs I think he does it how he does it at this point. I don't see a major change in his execution on the ground but I could be wrong. Maia was very conservative even before his mma days.