Fury's 2 biggest wins since the pitter patter win against a 40yo Wlad have aged horribly, his farce is almost over

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I mean if the sport was evolving to cater to more Lewis sized and skilled boxers Usyk likely wouldn't be able to hang with them. Holy didnt have to contend with an entire era of giants.

Usyk is in an ideal market in which the shortcomings due to his weight are being compensated by the short comings of others around him. It's fine I guess, if this is his his era and that's what he has to do he can't be critised for it. He is a great fighter in an era of good fighters who aren't finely tuned so no one can really outbox him yet. P4P a more well rounded big fighter with strong boxing iq should be too much foor him.

But there's an inherent issue with your theory. Giants like Lewis, Wlad, Vitali, Fury etc have never been the best boxers (despite their amateur creds). Generally men of that size aren't. They're not as technical and they don't move as well as cruiserweights or smaller heavyweights. Fundamentally speaking the fighters above have always had glaring flaws. That's why all of them got hit so much, floored, even knocked retarded (with the latter exception of Vitali who had an iron chin).

Usyk never fought Wlad but he used to be a regular sparring partner. He once embarrassed Wlad so badly that he was kicked out of the gym in front of the media. This was back in 2015 when Usyk was just a cruiserweight and a novice pro, mind you.

Oleksandr Usyk once dominated Wladimir Klitschko in sparring so bad the heavyweight legend chucked him out of the gym

 

[PBAC]

But there's an inherent issue with your theory. Giants like Lewis, Wlad, Vitali, Fury etc have never been the best boxers (despite their amateur creds). Generally men of that size aren't. They're not as technical and they don't move as well as cruiserweights or smaller heavyweights. Fundamentally speaking the fighters above have always had glaring flaws. That's why all of them got hit so much, floored, even knocked retarded (with the latter exception of Vitali who had an iron chin).

Usyk never fought Wlad but he used to be a regular sparring partner. He once embarrassed Wlad so badly that he was kicked out of the gym in front of the media. This was back in 2015 when Usyk was just a cruiserweight and a novice pro, mind you.

Oleksandr Usyk once dominated Wladimir Klitschko in sparring so bad the heavyweight legend chucked him out of the gym

Is there a source for that before usyks hw stint? It sounds like a yarn and that behaviour is very unwlad.


Here hee says sparring him was not easy and thinks usyk can do well once he adjusts to hw

 

[Levi_]

Fury has proven himself against this generation of boxers, and there is no denying that except with poor logic. How good is this generation? Not looking so good compared to other HW generations, so his poor showing against Francis is more a reflection of a sad generation of HWs. They are so sad, a guy in his first fight at the age of 37 can beat up a champ.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Is there a source for that before usyks hw stint? It sounds like a yarn and that behaviour is very unwlad.

Here hee says sparring him was not easy and thinks usyk can do well once he adjusts to hw

The media witnessed this particular sparring session. It was in 2015 and Wlad was using Usyk in his training camp to prepare him for Fury. Johnny Nelson personally witnessed it as did several other members of the media. They've talked about it over the years. Wlad got so upset that he kicked Usyk out after only going a single round. He didn't want the media to see anymore of him getting outclassed, battered even, because he was embarrassed. Nelson's story matches the other observers' accounts. It's consistent with what little they shared. Only Nelson went into more detail about it publicly.

 

[iwannabeadored]

That's because Usyk is a natural cruiserweight. He was always going to look undersized compared to the modern day heavyweight giants. That's not really a weakness though it's a naturally expected shortcoming that has applied to every cruiserweight who has ever moved up to heavy. We could also point out that Usyk lacks pop but he still has enough to hurt guys and occasionally even finish them off.

are ali and foreman natural cruiserweight? Stop with this nonsense. Usyk is 6-3 220. He’s a heavyweight that cut to cruiserweight. His physique has not changed from fighting Tony bellew to fighting Joshua. He’s undersized only against the giants.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I disagree but fair. Wallin did better in the Fury fight whereas Whyte has a somewhat better resume. The Parker win certainly shines a little more than it did last week. Really depends what you mean by "better win".

And that’s fair enough as well.

From my perspective Whyte has beaten much better HWs and operated at the top end of the division for a number of years. Maybe the version of Whyte that fury beat isn’t quite that fighter but he’s done far more in his pro career than wallin has, or will ever probably do. That fury fight is the only fight I’ve ever seen him not competitive and right in the fight. That may be as much down to the stylistic matchup as wear and tear. Dillian has slow feet and not the quickest hands. That suits Tyson

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Uh, I think Joshua losing and rematching over 4 fights had just as much to do with the division stalling than the Fury/Wilder's 3 fights.

Yet Joshua has pretty much fought all of the main contenders apart from the new guys on the block (zhang/hrgovic) and the 2 that wouldnt fight him. where as fury/wilder have just fought themselves or their favourite fighters to rematch and beat up! Joshua’s has 2 rematches, these guys have had their own little fight club for the last 4 years

 

[Jonny Ninja]

The media witnessed this particular sparring session. It was in 2015 and Wlad was using Usyk in his training camp to prepare him for Fury. Johnny Nelson personally witnessed it as did several other members of the media. They've talked about it over the years. Wlad got so upset that he kicked Usyk out after only going a single round. He didn't want the media to see anymore of him getting outclassed, battered even, because he was embarrassed. Nelson's story matches the other observers' accounts. It's consistent with what little they shared. Only Nelson went into more detail about it publicly.

What a story! And they look like such good mates in the photo as well

Maybe if wlad had kept usyk in camp he may have been better prepared for the fury fight. If he could’ve learned to time usyk in sparring he’d have probably thrown that right hand far more than he actually did in the fight with fury

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

are ali and foreman natural cruiserweight? Stop with this nonsense. Usyk is 6-3 220. He’s a heavyweight that cut to cruiserweight. His physique has not changed from fighting Tony bellew to fighting Joshua. He’s undersized only against the giants.

Cruiserweight wasn't even around during either of their primes. Back then heavyweights were much smaller. The average heavyweight today has to be around 240 lbs and 6'5.

Once again you've shown your ignorance. At this point I'm convinced you don't watch boxing. Especially after you told me recently that today's heavyweight era was superior to the 80s. Still think so after the whole Fury vs Ngannou debacle? I was right then and I'm right now.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

are ali and foreman natural cruiserweight? Stop with this nonsense. Usyk is 6-3 220. He’s a heavyweight that cut to cruiserweight. His physique has not changed from fighting Tony bellew to fighting Joshua. He’s undersized only against the giants.

Tony bellew is the same height and roughly the same build as usyk. Fought at HW at a higher weight than usyk but fought the vast majority of his career at LHW. Does that make him a HW that cut to LHW??

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Fury has proven himself against this generation of boxers, and there is no denying that except with poor logic. How good is this generation? Not looking so good compared to other HW generations, so his poor showing against Francis is more a reflection of a sad generation of HWs. They are so sad, a guy in his first fight at the age of 37 can beat up a champ.

I assume by this generation of boxers you specifically mean wilder and chisora lol

His big win is against the best HW of the last generation. He’s hardly fought any contenders of this generation. He’s done his best to avoid the other 2 top fighters in the division, and even boasts about it on social media. We’ll see how he looks against the actual best in the division in February

And his embarrassing performance against ngannou is on him and no one else.

 

[Levi_]

I assume by this generation of boxers you specifically mean wilder and chisora lol

His big win is against the best HW of the last generation. He’s hardly fought any contenders of this generation. He’s done his best to avoid the other 2 top fighters in the division, and even boasts about it on social media. We’ll see how he looks against the actual best in the division in February

And his embarrassing performance against ngannou is on him and no one else.

On the contrary, he is the champion for a reason. I know it feels good to say Wilder was "never that good" because he got old and lost, but it isn't reality.

The fights of a champ are quite certainly a reflection of the level of current competition; nice for the boxing purists to be able to hide from what happened in the Francis fight, and what it means in a larger context.

Francis did what no one thought he could do against Fury. The only other explanation is that boxers just aren't that great in general, which is what a lot of MMA fans are trying to jump on; I don't believe that, but I do believe today's HWs suck. Big guys with subpar skills.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

On the contrary, he is the champion for a reason. I know it feels good to say Wilder was "never that good" because he got old and lost, but it isn't reality.

The fights of a champ are quite certainly a reflection of the level of current competition; nice for the boxing purists to be able to hide from what happened in the Francis fight, and what it means in a larger context.

Francis did what no one thought he could do against Fury. The only other explanation is that boxers just aren't that great in general, which is what a lot of MMA fans are trying to jump on; I don't believe that, but I do believe today's HWs suck. Big guys with subpar skills.

He’s one of 2 champions and the other fella has the ring belt and 3 of the 4 alphabet titles. So if he’s faced the best of the current generation, name them? Who are these contenders on his resume other than wilder 3 times?

As well as he did, Ngannou also lost the fight

 

[Levi_]

He’s one of 2 champions and the other fella has the ring belt and 3 of the 4 alphabet titles. So if he’s faced the best of the current generation, name them? Who are these contenders on his resume other than wilder 3 times?

As well as he did, Ngannou also lost the fight

Francis humiliated HW boxing with that performance, and there is absolutely no way around that. Lots of people even thought he won. You can look up his contenders on the internet.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

And that’s fair enough as well.

From my perspective Whyte has beaten much better HWs and operated at the top end of the division for a number of years. Maybe the version of Whyte that fury beat isn’t quite that fighter but he’s done far more in his pro career than wallin has, or will ever probably do. That fury fight is the only fight I’ve ever seen him not competitive and right in the fight. That may be as much down to the stylistic matchup as wear and tear. Dillian has slow feet and not the quickest hands. That suits Tyson

I forgot about Whyte getting blasted inside 6 by Fury. That was a good win. Still Usyk is probably gonna batter him, and not because Fury is a fraud or diminished, he’s just gonna get beat. A born to box like Tyson will never lose his timing, but he can get out worked and outboxed by a more disciplined and champion-like athlete like Usyk.

 

[Colin Mackie]

are ali and foreman natural cruiserweight? Stop with this nonsense. Usyk is 6-3 220. He’s a heavyweight that cut to cruiserweight. His physique has not changed from fighting Tony bellew to fighting Joshua. He’s undersized only against the giants.

Usyk’s wife said in the lead up to the second AJ fight that Usyk had to eat like a horse to get uo to 220. I believe her. At heavyweight he’s thucker and a little softer than he was at Cruiser. He’s a better fit for the division than Chris Byrd (who should have been SMW/LHW) but still puffed-up by modern standards.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I forgot about Whyte getting blasted inside 6 by Fury. That was a good win. Still Usyk is probably gonna batter him, and not because Fury is a fraud or diminished, he’s just gonna get beat. A born to box like Tyson will never lose his timing, but he can get out worked and outboxed by a more disciplined and champion-like athlete like Usyk.

I think it’s easily his best win outside of wlad and wilder. Whyte was the only fight to hurt and floor Parker prior to the Joyce fight. Even in his recent fights he absolutely dominated povetkin over both fights other than a split second before the end of their first fight. Povetkin set him up and lulled him in to his trap beautifully, but he was also getting pieced up and hurt.

I’m with you on usyk. other than size and power, usyk does all the things fury does well, but better. And he has the footwork to nullify furys few advantages. I expect him to turn this in to a horrible and dirty fight. It’s his only chance

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Francis humiliated HW boxing with that performance, and there is absolutely no way around that. Lots of people even thought he won. You can look up his contenders on the internet.

He did great but he didn’t win enough rounds. It is what it is. Yeah he comes out with huge credit but he still lost. I don’t buy any of excuses from furys fans, he was dog shit. But before forming a weird judgment on all of HW boxing based on a guy who hasn’t fought hardly any of them, let’s see how Francis does against other top boxers?

And let’s wait to see how fury/Usyk goes before claiming anyone I’d the best in the division

 

[Blastbeat]

He did great but he didn’t win enough rounds. It is what it is. Yeah he comes out with huge credit but he still lost. I don’t buy any of excuses from furys fans, he was dog shit. But before forming a weird judgment on all of HW boxing based on a guy who hasn’t fought hardly any of them, let’s see how Francis does against other top boxers?

And let’s wait to see how fury/Usyk goes before claiming anyone I’d the best in the division

well Francis is now ranked by the WBC so he should fight someone in their top rankings. maybe Bokole, Makhmudov or Ajagba. those dudes are all a few steps down from Fury but would be a good gauge of Francis' actual level in boxing.

Hell, Jared Anderson would be a damn fun fight. would probably sell OK too since Jared's becoming more known.

 

[Levi_]

He did great but he didn’t win enough rounds. It is what it is. Yeah he comes out with huge credit but he still lost. I don’t buy any of excuses from furys fans, he was dog shit. But before forming a weird judgment on all of HW boxing based on a guy who hasn’t fought hardly any of them, let’s see how Francis does against other top boxers?

And let’s wait to see how fury/Usyk goes before claiming anyone I’d the best in the division

It isn't just Francis; I'm old enough to have watched Ali and co in the 70s and Tyson, Lewis, etc. in the 80-90s. I'm just not that impressed by what I see in the fights these days; I don't see them doing well against the older fighters.

That's fair what you are saying though, the upcoming fight will tell a big story.