Favorite Chain of Attacks

[shunyata]

NS choke is great once you get the subtleties of the mechanics down, which is tricky. Most people apply it like a crank and don't get the squeeze right, similar to how some have trouble making darces and arm triangles pure chokes and they get cranky.

There just aren't many people doing it or teaching it correctly.

I worked with a buddy that was a brown belt (this was a few weeks before he was promoted to black by Relson) that had never really had it broken down. After about five or ten minutes of some demonstrations and adjustments, he was NAILING it, immediate tap, clean, pure choke, zero crank.

I would imagine that you just haven't worked closely with someone that really understands the finishing mechanics of the choke.

One thing I'd add to this is that I became dramatically better at the NS choke when I started copying Marcelo and setting it up in side control.

It's not that easy to get the choking arm deep from north south with the guy planting his head on the mat. But you can snake the arm in real deep from side control then transition to north south after you've wrapped the neck. Just glides in like room temperature butter on hot toast.

 

[mattemate]

One thing I'd add to this is that I became dramatically better at the NS choke when I started copying Marcelo and setting it up in side control.

It's not that easy to get the choking arm deep from north south with the guy planting his head on the mat. But you can snake the arm in real deep from side control then transition to north south after you've wrapped the neck. Just glides in like room temperature butter on hot toast.

Absolutely agree with this!

 

[mattemate]

One thing I'd add to this is that I became dramatically better at the NS choke when I started copying Marcelo and setting it up in side control.

It's not that easy to get the choking arm deep from north south with the guy planting his head on the mat. But you can snake the arm in real deep from side control then transition to north south after you've wrapped the neck. Just glides in like room temperature butter on hot toast.

Anything on technical details I mentioned you'd change or add to? I'm curious how you're finishing and if you agree with the mechanics as I describe them.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Let me describe a few details that I think could help.
First, I would ask if you're joining your hands or not for the finish. I prefer NOT joining my hands, but just having one wrist on top of the other.

Let's assume you're choking with your left arm. Try this just sitting in a chair.
Don't lift, don't squeeze. Put your palm on your sternum, slide your hand across your chest toward your right shoulder. This will drive your left bicep into their left carotid. Don't think about the crook of your elbow, that will just make it cranky, we want a clean blood choke. Now, instead a rib cage, think lat. You want your lat, with the bottom corner of your shoulder blade, in their right carotid. As you drive your left arm across your sternum, you walk in a clockwise circle, pressuring the right side of their neck with the very upper portion of your lat, as high up on your own armpit as you can wedge them. Now, and only now, do you think about your hands. Palms up. Back of your right hand on the floor, back of your left hand just above it, and NOW turn your wrists to you. But if you've done the other things correctly, you'll never even need to do that.

Once everything is set up, it should be practically effortless, and a VERY quick tap.

OK I need to try it your way next class. I'm with you up to the touching hands part but I was taught to try to finish it with only one arm with palm facing down and the rest of the details as you're describing it. I know that way can work because I've felt it as a clean blood choke and can sometimes finish it that way. But more often than not if I get the sub, I have to cross my wrists behind their neck (with radial bones facing me) and then use chest pressure to finish, making it cranky. Coincidentally, I just got swept today trying to do that, by the same guy I finished it on earlier this week. As I was crossing my wrists under his neck and settling back down, he turned into me and got the reversal.

 

[shunyata]

Anything on technical details I mentioned you'd change or add to? I'm curious how you're finishing and if you agree with the mechanics as I describe them.

Sounds about right. I like the one handed finish with my secondary hand palming their shoulder.

If you're in the right place I don't squeeze so much as I sink into it. Stapling my shoulder into the mat with their neck in the way.

OK I need to try it your way next class. I'm with you up to the touching hands part but I was taught to try to finish it with only one arm with palm facing down and the rest of the details as you're describing it. I know that way can work because I've felt it as a clean blood choke and can sometimes finish it that way. But more often than not if I get the sub, I have to cross my wrists behind their neck (with radial bones facing me) and then use chest pressure to finish, making it cranky. Coincidentally, I just got swept today trying to do that, by the same guy I finished it on earlier this week. As I was crossing my wrists under his neck and settling back down, he turned into me and got the reversal.

I'm usually thumb up on the choking arm, takes away more space by making the bony part of your forearm taller. Lower my head to the mat and sort of plank into the choke, dropping all my weight through the choking arm.

If they start bucking out too wild and you think you may lose the position, take a chin strap grip as they're turning into you, then swing your leg around towards kob and then mount. Keep the chin strap, you can finish a one handed guillotine in mount from there.

 

[mattemate]

Sounds about right. I like the one handed finish with my secondary hand palming their shoulder.

Can you describe this a bit?

I'm usually thumb up on the choking arm, takes away more space by making the bony part of your forearm taller. Lower my head to the mat and sort of plank into the choke, dropping all my weight through the choking arm.

Yes, I agree. Rotating the wrist inward from palm up is the last thing I do to cinch the choke in.

 

[shunyata]

Can you describe this a bit?

Yes, I agree. Rotating the wrist inward from palm up is the last thing I do to cinch the choke in.

Closest I can find on short notice, Bernardo uses the secondary hand to grab the elbow thus preventing the shoulder from coming back into him.

If we take that a step further, instead of grabbing at the elbow with left hand I palm that shoulder with my left hand and drop my head to the mat the same way he does.

Close to the position at 0:49, but left hand on shoulder instead of connecting my hands. If you're in the right place it has the effect of extending his neck as your weight slides into place on the neck.



Here's Danaher doing it at 1:13, but I my leave my hand there on the shoulder and drop my head into position like Bernardo at 0:49 to finish.

 

[mattemate]

OK I need to try it your way next class. I'm with you up to the touching hands part but I was taught to try to finish it with only one arm with palm facing down and the rest of the details as you're describing it. I know that way can work because I've felt it as a clean blood choke and can sometimes finish it that way. But more often than not if I get the sub, I have to cross my wrists behind their neck (with radial bones facing me) and then use chest pressure to finish, making it cranky. Coincidentally, I just got swept today trying to do that, by the same guy I finished it on earlier this week. As I was crossing my wrists under his neck and settling back down, he turned into me and got the reversal.

Did you ever try that?

 

[EndlessCritic]

there's something poetic about this arm triangle into a von flue:

 

[mattemate]

there's something poetic about this arm triangle into a von flue:

Pretty cool. New to me. Surprised I've never seen it before. Announcer called it a "corner choke" lol.

 

[EndlessCritic]

Pretty cool. New to me. Surprised I've never seen it before. Announcer called it a "corner choke" lol.

As a bonus, he starts the fight with an osoto gari. Einarr would be proud.

 

[EndlessCritic]

only better arm triangle transition is khabib vs gaethje:



Khabib goes for the arm triangle, and gaethje tries to defend by connecting his hands. Khabib then slides his left knee under the defending arm to switch to a mounted triangle. just magical.

 

[shunyata]

there's something poetic about this arm triangle into a von flue:

Beautiful, shades of that OSP fight where he wraps the arm himself and pins it for the von flue.

 

[mattemate]

only better arm triangle transition is khabib vs gaethje:



Khabib goes for the arm triangle, and gaethje tries to defend by connecting his hands. Khabib then slides his left knee under the defending arm to switch to a mounted triangle. just magical.

Man, that reaction by Khabib... I can relate. My dad died in 2020, not of covid, but it was just his time. He and my grandfather were both master machinists. Also great fabricators and welders, tool and die makers. I grew up in shops. Always worked with steel. A month or so after my dad died, I was doing a solid steel handrail in a house that was being remodeled. I take pride in my work. I'd been working on it for a few days, and finally had it all together but not installed yet. I was working at the house alone late at night, and got it set up to take some photos. It looked perfect, the lines and shadows, some of my best work, and all the memories came flooding back. I was just overcome with emotion in that moment, because I wanted to send pictures to my dad, but all I had was the legacy and the love and memories. The waterworks really turned on in that moment. I'm a champion of my craft, but really more than anything just wanted to share it with my old man again. I know just how Khabib felt.

 

[Van Daz]

 

[ChickenBrother]

Did you ever try that?

I've attempted it a few times during rolls but haven't been able to finish. NS is a big part of my game but everyone at the gym is now wary of it lol. So even when I lock down the position, they're defending the NS choke right off the bat by framing and denying me from settling in. Twice this week I had other guy in NS for at least a minute probably two and was adjusting trying to finish but couldn't. Later this week I'll try to get someone to let me try it out without resistance before or after class. Problem I've been having with palms starting up is I'm not able to apply as much top pressure to keep bottom guy under control. With palm down (what I'm used to doing), it's like shoulder of justice from NS. I need to play with it some more and will report back.

 

[mattemate]

I've attempted it a few times during rolls but haven't been able to finish. NS is a big part of my game but everyone at the gym is now wary of it lol. So even when I lock down the position, they're defending the NS choke right off the bat by framing and denying me from settling in. Twice this week I had other guy in NS for at least a minute probably two and was adjusting trying to finish but couldn't. Later this week I'll try to get someone to let me try it out without resistance before or after class. Problem I've been having with palms starting up is I'm not able to apply as much top pressure to keep bottom guy under control. With palm down (what I'm used to doing), it's like shoulder of justice from NS. I need to play with it some more and will report back.

Hey, I found the Jeff Monson video where he shows how he crosses his hands. He does it differently than I do, but his way makes more sense. The way I cross, my hands make the diagonals of the x from elbow low to wrist high. His go from elbow high to wrist low, which makes more sense, because it causes you to be a bit lower on them. He also doesn't show the finishing detail of pronating your hands. That DOES make it tighter, but honestly isn't even necessary. I feel like he's shown it in another video.

Hope this helps! Monson, despite being a filthy commie who should be shoved out of a helicopter, is the kind of the north/south choke.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Hey, I found the Jeff Monson video where he shows how he crosses his hands. He does it differently than I do, but his way makes more sense. The way I cross, my hands make the diagonals of the x from elbow low to wrist high. His go from elbow high to wrist low, which makes more sense, because it causes you to be a bit lower on them. He also doesn't show the finishing detail of pronating your hands. That DOES make it tighter, but honestly isn't even necessary. I feel like he's shown it in another video.

Hope this helps! Monson, despite being a filthy commie who should be shoved out of a helicopter, is the kind of the north/south choke.

OK I tried it again at class tonight and finished it three times on a poor white belt in rolling. I tried it the Danaher way from @shunyata's post above and it worked pretty great. I've been doing it Monson's way, but with palm initially down to solidify position, and then crossing wrists like he shows to finish. But for me that's cranky and I often struggle to finish on bigger stronger guys - but that's probably not an issue for filthy commie Monson since he's just a jacked white boy.

Main issue I've been having with the Monson way is there is nothing stopping bottom guy from continuing to circle into you while you try to settle in, unless you're big/strong enough to tighten immediately. The Danaher way with your hands pushing into bottom guy's clavicle both prevents him from following you, and helps turn his head away which gives a better angle for the choke. After class I also tried it on the fellow purple I couldn't finish on last week and we replicated the effect on each other i.e. clean blood choke and couldn't readily circle to create space once locked up.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Throw > Kesa Gatame > Move upward switching legs to Kami Shiho Gatame, ideally with entangled arm > Do whatever i feel like ...