ECW/Attitude Era was the worst thing that happened to the wrestling buisness.

[XThe GreatestX]

Yeah I said it. I dont give a shit.

First lets talk about ECW. ECW was a promotion that prided itself on hardcore wrestling+high drama angles and it made them an extremely influential promotion. However when you actually watch ECW, ( and I am talking about a full show not just some highlights) IT SUCKED. At least imo. No pyschology, very few wrestlers who could actually wrestle. The crowd chanted for these guys who literally couldn't put a match together to save their life, because they hit each other with objects. Or they would put on matches with ZERO and I mean zero psychology whatsoever. Just moves. I am a fan of both Sabu and RVD. But i recently watched an ECW ppv of them in 98 where they were literally hitting each other with super moves for a full 30 minutes, selling each move for approximately three seconds before getting up and doing another one.

Probably hurt each other along the way to doing all that shit. And the fans are chanting ECW, ECW, ECW because they know these guys are beating the fuck out of each other and working hard......what kind of psychology is that??? And dont even get me started on guys like the Rottens, New Jack, Mustapha, Sandman( Although he had a good character at least), Da Baldies, Credible etc. Sure they had guys like Malenko, Benoit and Eddy for a little bit. But all in all the promotion sucked in terms of wrestling.

Heres another reason why ECW sucked. Because the WWF was stupid enough to copy it! The WWF needed to do something while it was getting its ass kicked by WCW. So they copied ECW's style of garbage matches, high drama angles in place of good matches and going over the line constantly.

You know what happens when you go over the line constantly??? You desensitize your audience with all the shit you are doing! In the 80's you could hit someone with a roll of quarters and literally draw for 6 months with that! But after the fans had seen these guys go thru barbed wire, and tables and chair shots to the head, all the sudden you have to continuously top yourself to an audience who literally got to see these guys get there bodies torn apart by everything imagniable during the Attitude Era. Thats why the Attitude Era hurt wrestling. Yes it caused other problems like putting on ppv matches on tv instead of saving them for ppv ( how many times today have we seen Reigns vs Balor on Raw? 3 times? Guarentee you we see it again at some point AND THAN they wrestle on ppv apparently in a match thats suppose to mean something)

But that to me is the main problem with the attitude era. They went to far. And now that eveyone has seen these guys do all that shit, it killed the ability to draw with simple angles that made up 95% of wrestling storylines in the 60's,70's,80's. And as for the people that say that wrestling needs to evolve. I say why? Its the exact same business that it was in the 30's. You build up two guys. One that fans hate, one that fans love. than they fight. Overcomplication is what we got in the attitude era and it hurt the business tremendously.

YES we had great moments. I loved Austin, The Rock, Taker, Kane, nWo, Sting etc. But when you have stars like that YOU DONT NEED TO GO OVER THE LINE CONSTANTLY. The attitude era hurt the buisness to the point where it never has fully recovered.

 

[Almighty Angus]

 

[XThe GreatestX]

lol eh. Just my two cents. I'd be more than happy to discuss if you disagree

 

[Almighty Angus]

lol eh. Just my two cents. I'd be more than happy to discuss if you disagree

I don't really disagree, it just had to be posted.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I don't really disagree, it just had to be posted.

lol forsure. Yeah its sometimes a touchy subject with people who were big fans during that time period. I was as well, but I can still be honest about what it was. A boom period where we had two of the biggest stars in history ( Austin and Rock) the greatest heel ever ( McMahon). Everything else just went along for the ride. DX was irrelevant. Hardcore wrestling was not why people watched. Hot shot booking was not why people watched. All it did was hurt the buisness in the long run.

 

[Pliny Pete]

Someone just discovered Jim Cornette shoots
#Damnclouds!!

 

[ArchGoat]

Isn't that what Jim Cornette has said.

 

[Big Burly]

The worst thing to happen to PW was when Vince Jr started buying up all the territories' talent, shutting down nearly all of the territories except NWA/WCW.

They NEED a solid competitor.

 

[TheStruggle]

In the long run, you aren't wrong

 

[GSPSAKU]

I said this in one of my first posts when I first got on here back in 2007 and I still stand by it.

Outside of all that you mentioned, you left out the last minute hotshotting, short sighted storylines, and everyone kicking out of everyone's finisher. Nothing means anything anymore and that's really the gist of it; it's hard to care when everything changes on a whim.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I said this in one of my first posts when I first got on here back in 2007 and I still stand by it.

Outside of all that you mentioned, you left out the last minute hotshotting, short sighted storylines, and everyone kicking out of everyone's finisher. Nothing means anything anymore and that's really the gist of it; it's hard to care when everything changes on a whim.

The finisher thing to me is especially annoying. It really started with the undertaker shawn michaels match at Wrestlemania 25. Thats really where that came from. Great match but not 5 stars for me. To many finishers.

I am a huge fan of New Japan Pro Wrestling but in the recent 60 minute draw between Omega-Okada that Melzter pissed his pants about he gave it 6 stars. I had it at 4 and a half. Why? BECAUSE THEY LITERALLY HIT LIKE 10 FINISHERS ON EACH OTHER.

For those who have seen it seriously how many fuckin knee strikes did Omega hit Okada with? 10? Its a problem that really started with taker and shawn. I get it they went an hour. But guess what when Steamboat and Flair went an hour Ric didn't put him in 10 Figure Fours. Just saying

I saw it also in a recent WWE match from the Rumble between AJ and Cena. Literally 3 finisher kickouts each! unacceptable.

 

[DM1982]

Yeah I said it. I dont give a shit.

First lets talk about ECW. ECW was a promotion that prided itself on hardcore wrestling+high drama angles and it made them an extremely influential promotion. However when you actually watch ECW, ( and I am talking about a full show not just some highlights) IT SUCKED. At least imo. No pyschology, very few wrestlers who could actually wrestle. The crowd chanted for these guys who literally couldn't put a match together to save their life, because they hit each other with objects. Or they would put on matches with ZERO and I mean zero psychology whatsoever. Just moves. I am a fan of both Sabu and RVD. But i recently watched an ECW ppv of them in 98 where they were literally hitting each other with super moves for a full 30 minutes, selling each move for approximately three seconds before getting up and doing another one.

Probably hurt each other along the way to doing all that shit. And the fans are chanting ECW, ECW, ECW because they know these guys are beating the fuck out of each other and working hard......what kind of psychology is that??? And dont even get me started on guys like the Rottens, New Jack, Mustapha, Sandman( Although he had a good character at least), Da Baldies, Credible etc. Sure they had guys like Malenko, Benoit and Eddy for a little bit. But all in all the promotion sucked in terms of wrestling.

Heres another reason why ECW sucked. Because the WWF was stupid enough to copy it! The WWF needed to do something while it was getting its ass kicked by WCW. So they copied ECW's style of garbage matches, high drama angles in place of good matches and going over the line constantly.

You know what happens when you go over the line constantly??? You desensitize your audience with all the shit you are doing! In the 80's you could hit someone with a roll of quarters and literally draw for 6 months with that! But after the fans had seen these guys go thru barbed wire, and tables and chair shots to the head, all the sudden you have to continuously top yourself to an audience who literally got to see these guys get there bodies torn apart by everything imagniable during the Attitude Era. Thats why the Attitude Era hurt wrestling. Yes it caused other problems like putting on ppv matches on tv instead of saving them for ppv ( how many times today have we seen Reigns vs Balor on Raw? 3 times? Guarentee you we see it again at some point AND THAN they wrestle on ppv apparently in a match thats suppose to mean something)

But that to me is the main problem with the attitude era. They went to far. And now that eveyone has seen these guys do all that shit, it killed the ability to draw with simple angles that made up 95% of wrestling storylines in the 60's,70's,80's. And as for the people that say that wrestling needs to evolve. I say why? Its the exact same business that it was in the 30's. You build up two guys. One that fans hate, one that fans love. than they fight. Overcomplication is what we got in the attitude era and it hurt the business tremendously.

YES we had great moments. I loved Austin, The Rock, Taker, Kane, nWo, Sting etc. But when you have stars like that YOU DONT NEED TO GO OVER THE LINE CONSTANTLY. The attitude era hurt the buisness to the point where it never has fully recovered.

So you're taking the Attitude era away from us?

One of the greatest eras of PW in it's entire history!

GTFO dude!

I appreciate the thought you put in, but the Attitude era was extremely awesome and virtually 100% of this board will disagree with you, and be robbed of amazing memories that shaped our affinity with PW.

Nothing lasts forever, long term the PW industry may in some way have suffered from this, but you'd have to pry it from our cold, dead hands, brother!

 

[Good Ole Stannis's BBQ]

Yeah I said it. I dont give a shit.

First lets talk about ECW. ECW was a promotion that prided itself on hardcore wrestling+high drama angles and it made them an extremely influential promotion. However when you actually watch ECW, ( and I am talking about a full show not just some highlights) IT SUCKED. At least imo. No pyschology, very few wrestlers who could actually wrestle. The crowd chanted for these guys who literally couldn't put a match together to save their life, because they hit each other with objects. Or they would put on matches with ZERO and I mean zero psychology whatsoever. Just moves. I am a fan of both Sabu and RVD. But i recently watched an ECW ppv of them in 98 where they were literally hitting each other with super moves for a full 30 minutes, selling each move for approximately three seconds before getting up and doing another one.

Probably hurt each other along the way to doing all that shit. And the fans are chanting ECW, ECW, ECW because they know these guys are beating the fuck out of each other and working hard......what kind of psychology is that??? And dont even get me started on guys like the Rottens, New Jack, Mustapha, Sandman( Although he had a good character at least), Da Baldies, Credible etc. Sure they had guys like Malenko, Benoit and Eddy for a little bit. But all in all the promotion sucked in terms of wrestling.

Heres another reason why ECW sucked. Because the WWF was stupid enough to copy it! The WWF needed to do something while it was getting its ass kicked by WCW. So they copied ECW's style of garbage matches, high drama angles in place of good matches and going over the line constantly.

You know what happens when you go over the line constantly??? You desensitize your audience with all the shit you are doing! In the 80's you could hit someone with a roll of quarters and literally draw for 6 months with that! But after the fans had seen these guys go thru barbed wire, and tables and chair shots to the head, all the sudden you have to continuously top yourself to an audience who literally got to see these guys get there bodies torn apart by everything imagniable during the Attitude Era. Thats why the Attitude Era hurt wrestling. Yes it caused other problems like putting on ppv matches on tv instead of saving them for ppv ( how many times today have we seen Reigns vs Balor on Raw? 3 times? Guarentee you we see it again at some point AND THAN they wrestle on ppv apparently in a match thats suppose to mean something)

But that to me is the main problem with the attitude era. They went to far. And now that eveyone has seen these guys do all that shit, it killed the ability to draw with simple angles that made up 95% of wrestling storylines in the 60's,70's,80's. And as for the people that say that wrestling needs to evolve. I say why? Its the exact same business that it was in the 30's. You build up two guys. One that fans hate, one that fans love. than they fight. Overcomplication is what we got in the attitude era and it hurt the business tremendously.

YES we had great moments. I loved Austin, The Rock, Taker, Kane, nWo, Sting etc. But when you have stars like that YOU DONT NEED TO GO OVER THE LINE CONSTANTLY. The attitude era hurt the buisness to the point where it never has fully recovered.

I agree with some of what you said. Never liked Ecw or Strong style, it's a work if I wanted that I'd watch a fight. Television and Movies are constantly expected to evolve it should be no different for wrestling. Grey characters and anti-heroes are just more popular and cooler than traditional heroes nowadays. Simple can still work sometimes look at how they built up Braun. I'm not saying they need to make everything a convoluted story line that is a swerve for the sake of a swerve, but they need more interesting angles. Hulk Hogan although a bigger star than John Cena would have had the same troubles as he did in that era. The Undertaker might be more talented than Bray Wyatt but he sure as hell would have a hard time getting a supernatural gimmick over.

The later years did far more damage for me than the attitude era did. Hell in a cell used to end big heated rivalries, now they are by and large just spot fests for the title. The last 15 years there have only been a handful that warranted the match and it now has a set time it must go on every year regardless of where the story lines are at. I would argue that the continual use of multiple world champions is more damaging than the attitude era was. It hurt boxing and I have no idea why wwe and ufc think it makes more stars and fans like it. All it accomplishes is giving you doubt about the legitimacy of the championship.

Over saturation looks like it will always be their biggest problem when it comes to retaining and attracting new fans. Parents don't want kids watching tv for 3 hours and it's a struggle for the rest of us to get through it. It isn't exclusively a wwe problem as we've seen lots of popular tv shows go on for too long without a clear plan and a lot of today's boxing and ufc cards feel like if you didn't see it you didn't miss out on anything. Others have said if Game of Thrones made their season finale 7 hours how many people other than absolute hardcores would be excited for that. Yet they will continue to make Wrestlemania longer and longer.

 

[Goatenstein]

If you hate ECW for its style but praise current WWE stunt show matches you are a hypocrite and you are filth.

 

[HereticBD]

The internet ruined the wrestling business.

 

[XThe GreatestX]

If you hate ECW for its style but praise current WWE stunt show matches you are a hypocrite and you are filth.

Except literally no one in this thread did so.....whats your point?

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I agree with some of what you said. Never liked Ecw or Strong style, it's a work if I wanted that I'd watch a fight. Television and Movies are constantly expected to evolve it should be no different for wrestling. Grey characters and anti-heroes are just more popular and cooler than traditional heroes nowadays. Simple can still work sometimes look at how they built up Braun. I'm not saying they need to make everything a convoluted story line that is a swerve for the sake of a swerve, but they need more interesting angles. Hulk Hogan although a bigger star than John Cena would have had the same troubles as he did in that era. The Undertaker might be more talented than Bray Wyatt but he sure as hell would have a hard time getting a supernatural gimmick over.

The later years did far more damage for me than the attitude era did. Hell in a cell used to end big heated rivalries, now they are by and large just spot fests for the title. The last 15 years there have only been a handful that warranted the match and it now has a set time it must go on every year regardless of where the story lines are at. I would argue that the continual use of multiple world champions is more damaging than the attitude era was. It hurt boxing and I have no idea why wwe and ufc think it makes more stars and fans like it. All it accomplishes is giving you doubt about the legitimacy of the championship.

Over saturation looks like it will always be their biggest problem when it comes to retaining and attracting new fans. Parents don't want kids watching tv for 3 hours and it's a struggle for the rest of us to get through it. It isn't exclusively a wwe problem as we've seen lots of popular tv shows go on for too long without a clear plan and a lot of today's boxing and ufc cards feel like if you didn't see it you didn't miss out on anything. Others have said if Game of Thrones made their season finale 7 hours how many people other than absolute hardcores would be excited for that. Yet they will continue to make Wrestlemania longer and longer.

see i dont have AS much of a problem with strong style as i did with the ECW stuff. Because its still presented as not only serious, but also realistic in most cases. However i do have a problem again with the selling and the moves they chose to do.

I recently watched the omega-okada matches that meltzer was pissing his pants about and to me it got to the point where they we hitting each other with moves that no one could get up from. Full knees to the face etc. compare that to a legitimate 5 star match in bret-austin where it looked like a realistic fight all the way and its just not in that league

 

[XThe GreatestX]

So you're taking the Attitude era away from us?

One of the greatest eras of PW in it's entire history!

GTFO dude!

I appreciate the thought you put in, but the Attitude era was extremely awesome and virtually 100% of this board will disagree with you, and be robbed of amazing memories that shaped our affinity with PW.

Nothing lasts forever, long term the PW industry may in some way have suffered from this, but you'd have to pry it from our cold, dead hands, brother!

Negative ghost rider. Just being realistic. Its nice to look back on it because it was a great era. no doubt. But as Jim Cornette once said the Attitude Era was the two dogs fucking on the side of the road principle.

Theres a reason they went from 10 million viewers to 3 million viewers around 2003. You know why? Because they completley went over the line to the point that when they tried to do simpler angles, you know the ones that make up 95% of wrestling storylines, they didnt fly anymore because people were so used to the bullshit wrestling that the Attitude Era and ECW produced.

THATS the problem. No one is saying it wasn't a great era. But theres a reason that around 2003 the business all the sudden starting hitting a sharp decline. For as great as the era was it did irreparable damage.

When you have Austin and The Rock two of the three biggest stars in American Wrestling and the greatest heel in American Wrestling history Vince McMahon, you dont need to do all that shit because its going to burn out quickly. It did and the business has never been the same.

Compare that to the 80's with the territories when ALL the territories were hot and each territory was selling out with their stars ( Which is insane to think about how many wrestling fans their really were back than. Territories were selling out on a consistent basis in their own areas which means they had to fill 10,000 seat arenas EVERY WEEK IN THE SAME AREA. You ever notice how the WWE goes to one area at a time. During the terrirtory era each terriroty ONLY HAD ONE AREA. AND THEY STILL SOLDOUT EVERY WEEK.)

The people who ran the terrirotires were smart. They went over the line only sparlingly because to do it on any consistent basis would have killed business. The WWE was stupid enough to do it for a number of years and it has crippled their business.

 

[DM1982]

Negative ghost rider. Just being realistic. Its nice to look back on it because it was a great era. no doubt. But as Jim Cornette once said the Attitude Era was the two dogs fucking on the side of the road principle.

Theres a reason they went from 10 million viewers to 3 million viewers around 2003. You know why? Because they completley went over the line to the point that when they tried to do simpler angles, you know the ones that make up 95% of wrestling storylines, they didnt fly anymore because people were so used to the bullshit wrestling that the Attitude Era and ECW produced.

THATS the problem. No one is saying it wasn't a great era. But theres a reason that around 2003 the business all the sudden starting hitting a sharp decline. For as great as the era was it did irreparable damage.

When you have Austin and The Rock two of the three biggest stars in American Wrestling and the greatest heel in American Wrestling history Vince McMahon, you dont need to do all that shit because its going to burn out quickly. It did and the business has never been the same.

Compare that to the 80's with the territories when ALL the territories were hot and each territory was selling out with their stars ( Which is insane to think about how many wrestling fans their really were back than. Territories were selling out on a consistent basis in their own areas which means they had to fill 10,000 seat arenas EVERY WEEK IN THE SAME AREA. You ever notice how the WWE goes to one area at a time. During the terrirtory era each terriroty ONLY HAD ONE AREA. AND THEY STILL SOLDOUT EVERY WEEK.)

The people who ran the terrirotires were smart. They went over the line only sparlingly because to do it on any consistent basis would have killed business. The WWE was stupid enough to do it for a number of years and it has crippled their business.

Its a price id gladly pay again.

Like I said nothing lasts forever; im glad the pw industry burned itself out while I was young.

Pw is for kids really, so if youre a grown man now moaning about current pw, you need to evaluate yourself.

I and im sure alot of others regret nothing.

Decent thread tho

 

[XThe GreatestX]

Its a price id gladly pay again.

Like I said nothing lasts forever; im glad the pw industry burned itself out while I was young.

Pw is for kids really, so if youre a grown man now moaning about current pw, you need to evaluate yourself.

I and im sure alot of others regret nothing.

Decent thread tho

Meh. Its a thread about wrestling.... in a forum about wrestling......Discussing wrestling is not out of the ordinary. And no I dont watch on any kind of regular basis. But its still worth discussing. And I am actually doing pretty well for myself rn....

and as for the regretting nothing stuff than i guess thats just your opinion. I'd much prefer wrestling being more popular however