Don’t Believe the Media — Gun Homicide Rates Dropped by 40% as Ownership Skyrocketed

[Smok3r]

You just triggered him for sure.

 

[Rational Poster]

Did you see the chart that says only 30% of Americans own guns?

 

[Deleted member 484047]

If you were a true 2A supported, I should be able to buy a nuke, because I don't have access to any weapon that will help me fight tyranny. Even with an AR I would last about 1 second taking on the US military.

All the tanks and drones in the world wont help much if you try to use them against civilians in the US. Its one thing to blast people to hell in some third world country, I dont think troops would be to keen on doing it to their own civilian populations.

 

[Andy Capp]

Now that the numbers are in, maybe, just maybe, the anti-constitution crew can realize how wrong they have been. And maybe we can start focusing on some real issues that plague this nation and our world.



Much to the chagrin of anti-Second Amendment liberals, two changes occurred right in the middle of that dramatic decline in gun homicides: “Assault rifles” became popular, and concealed carry became commonplace.


After being largely illegal during the Clinton era, so-called “assault weapons,” of course just semi-automatic sport rifles, once again became legal. The ban on those firearms expired in 2004, and gun owners rushed to their local stores to purchase the rifles.


One look at the gun homicide chart tells the story. Firearm murders continued to decline steadily after 2004, when AR-15s became legal and popular with civilians.


There was no spike in gun murders. In fact the opposite happened: America became safer.


It’s the same situation with concealed carry permits. There was a surge in the number of “shall-issue” states in the mid 1990s, as this animated map illustrates:

The increase in civilians legally carrying concealed handguns for self-defense almost perfectly correlates with the drop in firearm homicides during the same time period. Amazing....
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/d...rates-dropped-by-40-as-ownership-skyrocketed/

Or, listen to the city of Toronto which says its ever increasing number of shootings is directly related to the increasing availability of guns (wonder where they're coming from, hm?)

And you may not recall but that's the same guy that advocated taking away peoples' guns without due process, and if they crack their heads on the way in the squad car, well, that's fine too.
Metaphorically speaking,

 

[Greoric]

Except we're not talking about a natural phenomena.

We're talking about the actual rate of gun ownership in humans in America.

No matter how you slice it a smaller group of people own more and more guns.

It's a phenomena present throughout nature and through pretty much every sphere of production or anything humans do. In any event, your objective, should you choose to accept it, is to prove a causal link between gun ownership and higher rates of homicide. This data point shits on that effort pretty hard. Good luck.

 

[Greoric]

Or, listen to the city of Toronto which says its ever increasing number of shootings is directly related to the increasing availability of guns (wonder where they're coming from, hm?)

And you may not recall but that's the same guy that advocated taking away peoples' guns without due process, and if they crack their heads on the way in the squad car, well, that's fine too.
Metaphorically speaking,

So more shootings in a region go up with more guns? Great, you've demonstrated the weapon of choice in Toronto... for shootings. I'll await the literature that shows a causal link between homicides and gun ownership. Thanks in advance for not harboring sociopathic policy prescriptions that advocate stripping people of their rights before having the sufficient standard of proof to do so.

 

[Greoric]

All the tanks and drones in the world wont help much if you try to use them against civilians in the US. Its one thing to blast people to hell in some third world country, I dont think troops would be to keen on doing it to their own civilian populations.

Not only would they be ineffective their employment would be a fucking god send to any insurgency looking for more support and recruitment.

 

[HockeyBjj]

But do you see that little upward line from 2014 to 2015 and then not going back down in 2016? That's what we need to talk about

 

[Rational Poster]

It's a phenomena present throughout nature and through pretty much every sphere of production or anything humans do. In any event, your objective, should you choose to accept it, is to prove a causal link between gun ownership and higher rates of homicide. This data point shits on that effort pretty hard. Good luck.

I'm not trying to prove or disprove that, you are.

My argument is that gun ownership less to do with the homicide rate than ease of access does. Less people have easy access(by choice) to guns even if there are more in the private market. That's why less people are shooting each other.

I'd also argue that law enforcement has taken a pretty hard line stance on gun crime since the 90s with incredible mandatory minimums for gun related crimes which has done a lot to dissuade people from resorting to firearms.

Less and less people are hunters and farmers also, so there are a lot less rural people who need firearms, too.

 

[Greoric]

I'm not trying to prove or disprove that, you are.

My argument is that gun ownership less to do with the homicide rate than ease of access does. Less people have easy access(by choice) to guns even if there are more in the private market. That's why less people are shooting each other.

I'd also argue that law enforcement has taken a pretty hard line stance on gun crime since the 90s with incredible mandatory minimums for gun related crimes which has done a lot to dissuade people from resorting to firearms.

If you want to propose stripping people of their rights, that's your burden of proof psycho, and this little data point throws in a whopper of an obstacle for rationalizing away your sociopathy.

 

[Rational Poster]

If you want to propose stripping people of their rights, that's your burden of proof psycho, and this little data point throws in a whopper of an obstacle for rationalizing away your sociopathy.

No it doesn't.

I demonstrated other reasons for the decline in murders.

Harsher laws combined with less access by choice.

 

[Greoric]

No it doesn't.

I demonstrated other reasons for the decline in murders.

Harsher laws combined with less access by choice.

You demonstrated them? How'd you do that? Where's your literature where you quantify the data? Instead of opining away a rationalization because you happened to have an asshole?

 

[Andy Capp]

So more shootings in a region go up with more guns? Great, you've demonstrated the weapon of choice in Toronto... for shootings. I'll awaiting the literature that shows a causal link between homicides and gun ownership. Thanks in advance for not harboring sociopathic policy prescriptions that advocate stripping people of their rights before having the sufficient standard of proof to do so.

There is a direct relationship between the drastic number of guns seized in the course of police business and the increasing prevalence of violence in the city. I may have been somewhat lazy in my phrasing, but I have no doubt you understood my intent; that you're disingenuous enough to ignore the intent and spew hyperbole about something I didn't even say says a lot about the value of discussing your errors further with you.

 

[Rational Poster]

You demonstrated them? How'd you do that? Where's your literature where you quantify the data? Instead of opining away a rationalization because you happened to have an asshole?

I linked a lot of stuff in this thread already, maybe click back a few pages?

 

[Greoric]

There is a direct relationship between the drastic number of guns seized in the course of police business and the increasing prevalence of violence in the city. I may have been somewhat lazy in my phrasing, but I have no doubt you understood my intent; that you're disingenuous enough to ignore the intent and spew hyperbole about something I didn't even say says a lot about the value of discussing your errors further with you.

Incorrect. There is not. The mass of literature does not grossly support a correlation between gun ownership and homicide rate. It also, and more importantly, does not have any conclusion on the causal link between guns and homicide rate. Too date, no two way regression analysis has been done. So even in the event you want to claim that there's a correlation, you also do not know if the crime is a reaction to the guns or the guns are the reaction to the crime.

Demonstrating the causal link, is kind of the standard of proof you need to have before you start opining on the sociopathic position of stripping people of their constitutionally protected rights. Thanks for playing.

 

[HIMBOB]

Now that the numbers are in, maybe, just maybe, the anti-constitution crew can realize how wrong they have been. And maybe we can start focusing on some real issues that plague this nation and our world.



Much to the chagrin of anti-Second Amendment liberals, two changes occurred right in the middle of that dramatic decline in gun homicides: “Assault rifles” became popular, and concealed carry became commonplace.


After being largely illegal during the Clinton era, so-called “assault weapons,” of course just semi-automatic sport rifles, once again became legal. The ban on those firearms expired in 2004, and gun owners rushed to their local stores to purchase the rifles.


One look at the gun homicide chart tells the story. Firearm murders continued to decline steadily after 2004, when AR-15s became legal and popular with civilians.


There was no spike in gun murders. In fact the opposite happened: America became safer.


It’s the same situation with concealed carry permits. There was a surge in the number of “shall-issue” states in the mid 1990s, as this animated map illustrates:

The increase in civilians legally carrying concealed handguns for self-defense almost perfectly correlates with the drop in firearm homicides during the same time period. Amazing....
https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/d...rates-dropped-by-40-as-ownership-skyrocketed/

As is my understanding the number of people owning guns declined over this period? Is that not correct?

 

[Greoric]

I linked a lot of stuff in this thread already, maybe click back a few pages?

You rationalized away a reason for the lower firearm homicide rates, and then opined because you happened to have an asshole that was the reason. Let's see you integrate it with the data in the OP by quantifying it.

 

[Greoric]

As is my understanding the number of people owning guns declined over this period? Is that not correct?

Looks like you should throw in some data that concludes the reverse with the confounding variable, yes?

 

[Rational Poster]

You rationalized away a reason for the lower firearm homicide rates, and then opined because you happened to have an asshole that was the reason. Let's see you integrate it with the data in the OP by quantifying it.

Uh I linked gallop, pew, and Harvard studies that show a clear decline in the rate of household ownership and how it directly correlates with the decline in murder rate since the 90s.

Less people have access to guns today since we've started collecting this sort of data.

 

[Andy Capp]

Incorrect. There is not. The mass of literature does not grossly support a correlation between gun ownership and homicide rate. It also, and more importantly, does not have any conclusion on the causal link between guns and homicide rate. Too date, no two way regression analysis has been done. So even in the event you want to claim that there's a correlation, you also do not know if the crime is a reaction to the guns or the guns are the reaction to the crime.

Demonstrating the causal link, is kind of the standard of proof you need to have before you start opining on the sociopathic position of stripping people of their constitutionally protected rights. Thanks for playing.

You're not going to get anywhere with "sociopathic this and that." It just makes you sound like you have nothing in your head but buzzwords. Find a new game.