Law California law banning most firearms in public is taking effect as the legal fight over it continues

[avenue94]

Nothing gets people in jail anymore but god forbid you defend yourself with a CCW. That will get you charged.

If nothing gets people in jail (I assume you mean prison), how is that the state still has almost 100,000 prisoners under its care and is still over 100% capacity? Histrionics don't really help with these kind of discussions.

 

[Whippy McGee]

I have a huge amount of friends here in California that own guns, but refuse to register them. The common statement is that they don't trust being on any government list while living in California and owning a firearm. I guess they watched what happened during Hurricane Katrina as the seizures went full blast.

I have to ask, how many people with a CCW have committed mass murder, or opened up in a public setting? I am guessing that number is close to zero. California Democrats are solving a non-existent problem with the goal of disarming Americans and denying them their 2nd Amendment Rights.

We need nationwide reciprocity covering all states to protect citizens like us in California from Authoritarian Leftists.

 

[spamking]

I have a huge amount of friends here in California that own guns, but refuse to register them. The common statement is that they don't trust being on any government list while living in California and owning a firearm. I guess they watched what happened during Hurricane Katrina as the seizures went full blast.

I have to ask, how many people with a CCW have committed mass murder, or opened up in a public setting? I am guessing that number is close to zero. California Democrats are solving a non-existent problem with the goal of disarming Americans and denying them their 2nd Amendment Rights.

We need nationwide reciprocity covering all states to protect citizens like us in California from Authoritarian Leftists.

But if Newsom says they can't carry there they'll automagically be safer spaces . . . just cuz . . . or something.

 

[Protectandserve]

If nothing gets people in jail (I assume you mean prison), how is that the state still has almost 100,000 prisoners under its care and is still over 100% capacity? Histrionics don't really help with these kind of discussions.

They bumped a ton of people from state prison down to county jails.

Majority of crimes I used to take people to jail for are now simple tickets. They plea out and get probation. We arrest the same people over and over and they barely spend a handful of days in jail, if it all.

 

[spamking]

They bumped a ton of people from state prison down to county jails.

Majority of crimes I used to take people to jail for are now simple tickets. They plea out and get probation. We arrest the same people over and over and they barely spend a handful of days in jail, if it all.

Is that due to overcrowding or DAs not being as hard on criminals as the past?

 

[BFoe]

How many of the tragedies you're talking about were committed by someone with their licensed concealed weapon?

I have a huge amount of friends here in California that own guns, but refuse to register them. The common statement is that they don't trust being on any government list while living in California and owning a firearm. I guess they watched what happened during Hurricane Katrina as the seizures went full blast.

I have to ask, how many people with a CCW have committed mass murder, or opened up in a public setting? I am guessing that number is close to zero. California Democrats are solving a non-existent problem with the goal of disarming Americans and denying them their 2nd Amendment Rights.

We need nationwide reciprocity covering all states to protect citizens like us in California from Authoritarian Leftists.

It’s an interesting question, so I googled—and apparently there’s a whole website which tracks this (because of course there is).

Mass Shootings Committed By Concealed Carry Killers

May 2007 to the Present (PDF is available) A mass shooting is defined as the killing of three or more people consistent with the federal definition contained in the "Investigative Assistance for Vi...

concealedcarrykillers.org

Spoiler alert: the number is not close to zero.

 

[avenue94]

They bumped a ton of people from state prison down to county jails.

Majority of crimes I used to take people to jail for are now simple tickets. They plea out and get probation. We arrest the same people over and over and they barely spend a handful of days in jail, if it all.

Right, so clearly there is a very large prison & jail population in California. That's why I said it's hysterical to pretend that people still don't go to jail for a vast range of crimes.

If you want to say some of the offenses that many DA's prefer to not pursue jail time for should in fact lead to jail time, that's fine. But clearly the pre-Prop 47 manner of criminal justice wasn't working, and the downgrading of some felonies didn't lead to the end of society.

 

[avenue94]

Is that due to overcrowding or DAs not being as hard on criminals as the past?

It's both, those are two sides of the same coin. California has been over 100% capacity for prisons for decades. Combined with the previous approach very clearly not working.

 

[My Spot]

I have a huge amount of friends here in California that own guns, but refuse to register them. The common statement is that they don't trust being on any government list while living in California and owning a firearm. I guess they watched what happened during Hurricane Katrina as the seizures went full blast.

I have to ask, how many people with a CCW have committed mass murder, or opened up in a public setting? I am guessing that number is close to zero. California Democrats are solving a non-existent problem with the goal of disarming Americans and denying them their 2nd Amendment Rights.

We need nationwide reciprocity covering all states to protect citizens like us in California from Authoritarian Leftists.

Close enough.

According to the data, America’s 18 million concealed-carry permit holders accounted for 801 firearm-related homicides over a 15-year span, which amounts to roughly 0.7% of all firearm-related homicides during that time.

 

[pv3Hpv3p]

It’s an interesting question, so I googled—and apparently there’s a whole website which tracks this (because of course there is).

Mass Shootings Committed By Concealed Carry Killers

May 2007 to the Present (PDF is available) A mass shooting is defined as the killing of three or more people consistent with the federal definition contained in the "Investigative Assistance for Vi...

concealedcarrykillers.org

Spoiler alert: the number is not close to zero.

I only read the first five or six, but it doesn't seem like the issue in any of those situations was because of carrying concealed weapons... but unstable people that own weapons.

Using something like this as an excuse to limit people's rights is exactly what gets regular folks upset.

 

[Ichibanner]

Not schools of course. But if I understand correctly, there are lots of places one could carry a concealed weapon if they had a permit, whereas now this new law would override that.


Well damn, why don’t you send that horse some thoughts and prayers and see if that helps?

More than 40,000 people were killed this year due to gun violence and you act like it’s a fucking annoyance to have to keep hearing about it.

Hahaha! "Gun Violence" he says! Yeah, them evil guns are to blame for the actions of criminalist assholes murdering fellow human beings. Let's demonize an inanimate object that can sit for centuries without ever harming anyone. What a naïve or downright stupid take on the issue.

Failure to address root causes of violence and murder and an unwillingness to assign blame where it's due have cities with strict gun laws still seeing high murder rates committed via firearm.

Your solution is stricter gun laws to stop "gun violence"? Get back to us on how, exactly, that will stop criminals from committing murder which is illegal to begin with?

 

[Belaya Smert]

Just a few thoughts


Fifth Circuit is farce. The stay they put on this is incredibly irresponsible from that bench. No surprise there again this is the fifth circuit. All I can say is the time for compliance is over with. Brace Rule, Illinois gun ban, The Bonta vs May case.
Pass whatever legislation, executive action, hell decree the motherfucker from the top of a mountain on stone tablets.



We are as a law abiding society at one of the most tumultuous times in our nations history showing solidarity for the securing of our fundamental rights.


Look at the numbers for voluntary compliance.
They’re non existent across the three instances I mentioned above. Don’t even have to bring up New Mexico and everything their Governor has done to “freeze” the second amendment there, or Oregon, or Washington State. It’s a pretty clear systematic pattern of attempted civilian disarmament across the country.
Don’t believe me check the numbers.
The Nah’s have it.

 

[Cartiac]

Looks like most Californians and democrats don't give a shit about the constitution.

It may look that way but the truth is what most Californians give a shit about doesn't matter nor does the constitution since we live in an aristocracy. The entire concept of this article and "law" is ridiculous and just more insane political grandstanding because getting a concealed carry permit here is nearly impossible unless you are part of the ruling class. Do we really need to spend all this effort limiting the location of the ~100k people in California, .3% of the population with concealed carry permits are allowed to use it?

But at least I know our great governor is taking action to keep us safe from all the murderers he lets out on parole since at least they won't be concealing the gun they shoot you with at the zoo since that would be against the law.

 

[BFoe]

I only read the first five or six, but it doesn't seem like the issue in any of those situations was because of carrying concealed weapons... but unstable people that own weapons.

Using something like this as an excuse to limit people's rights is exactly what gets regular folks upset.

From a historical perspective, I don’t think these people in CA are having their rights limited—at least, not their Second Amendment rights—because historically, there is no 2nd Amendment right to public carry, whether concealed or openly.
Likewise, there is historically no such thing as a “Second Amendment right to own a weapon for personal self defense.”

That is not what the 2A says, or ever did—it’s something SCOTUS pulled out of their ass in the past 15 years. But since what they say becomes the law of the land, we have to try and grapple with this nonsense. I expect this CA law to get struck down because that seems to be what SCOTUS does with any gun law or regulation these days, and I honestly couldn’t tell you what types of gun regulations they think would be constitutional anymore.

But anytime between 1792 and 2010? This law would stand. And I think it’s important that Americans understand that, because it’s vital that we amend the Constitution and fix what SCOTUS fucked up.

 

[LeonardoBjj]

If nothing gets people in jail (I assume you mean prison), how is that the state still has almost 100,000 prisoners under its care and is still over 100% capacity? Histrionics don't really help with these kind of discussions.

- I assume because those people were already in prison/jail years before?

 

[Cajun]

I'm surprised to find that Cali allowed peeps to carry guns in public before this so I dont really have a reaction. Par for the course. It will be used to put more minorities in jail imo. Not that all wont be affected but yeah... Their liberal thoughts will backfire.

 

[Scerpi]

It’s an interesting question, so I googled—and apparently there’s a whole website which tracks this (because of course there is).

Mass Shootings Committed By Concealed Carry Killers

May 2007 to the Present (PDF is available) A mass shooting is defined as the killing of three or more people consistent with the federal definition contained in the "Investigative Assistance for Vi...

concealedcarrykillers.org

Spoiler alert: the number is not close to zero.

20 incidents in 15 years of a country with 350 million...

ok

 

[Long Dark Blues]

From a historical perspective, I don’t think these people in CA are having their rights limited—at least, not their Second Amendment rights—because historically, there is no 2nd Amendment right to public carry, whether concealed or openly.
Likewise, there is historically no such thing as a “Second Amendment right to own a weapon for personal self defense.”

That is not what the 2A says, or ever did—it’s something SCOTUS pulled out of their ass in the past 15 years. But since what they say becomes the law of the land, we have to try and grapple with this nonsense. I expect this CA law to get struck down because that seems to be what SCOTUS does with any gun law or regulation these days, and I honestly couldn’t tell you what types of gun regulations they think would be constitutional anymore.

But anytime between 1792 and 2010? This law would stand. And I think it’s important that Americans understand that, because it’s vital that we amend the Constitution and fix what SCOTUS fucked up.

I think the language is intentionally vague to allow for interpretation by the states. Personally, I do not believe the Constitution needs amending in regards to the 2nd Amendment, but that the states should be allowed to interpet the language to fit the peoples' will.

Pennsylvania's Constitution does not explicitly state anything regarding public carry, open or otherwise, but it is 100% implied in my opinion:

§ 21. Right to bear arms.
The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned.

 

[djacobox372]

One benefit of states like CA and Hawaii pushing these ridiculous gun laws is there's a greater chance the supreme court will step in and end all this nonsense, including the previous laws they already passed.

 

[Poatan Power]

Um, what? Have they been "allowing" guns in schools up until this point or something?

Nope. Concealed carry at or around schools has not been legal for a long time.

This is because the CA "may issue" law is no longer applicable, meaning they can't turn you down to ccw if you aren't a criminal, etc. and they can't just decide nobody in their county/city gets a CCW. So this is a workaround way to blocking CCW. Makes zero sense.

This law doesn't bother me as much as it bothers some other 2A advocates.

The 2A has never been about personal defense in daily life, it's about the right to equip a militia. CA's standard capacity magazine ban is far worse than this.

That's not what court interpretations have held at all. The 2nd amendment protects the rights of individuals to keep and bear arms. Period. The right to self defense is inherent to existence as an individual, whether against individuals or government. Arms are a legally protected and held right to use in self-defense.

This has been covered ad nauseam for centuries. The people who wrote the constitution almost uniformly wrote in support of individual firearm ownership. The courts all the way up to the supreme court have ruled this way in basically every landmark case. Yes, a militia is also protected and is the natural consequence of the declaration of independence and ensuing bill of rights. The 2nd amendment, nor its authors, have anywhere stated that individuals are to keep and bear arms hidden in their closet until a militia is formed and then they can exercise that right. It's a nonsensical stance.