Do Children Belong to their Families, or to the Community?

[John Redcorn]

Melissa Harris Perry recently said in an ad,

"We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to their communities."

You can see the ad here: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ke...s-kids-belong-their-communities#ixzz2PcF6W3RD

Do you agree or disagree with Ms Perry?

I'm kind of reminded of the old Bastiat quote, "Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society." Or even the Rothbard quip, "The great non sequitur committed by defenders of the State ... is to leap from the necessity of society to the necessity of the State."

 

[Jamoke]

F that. F the whole community thing. Just because someone is my neighbor doesn't mean that they are like me.

 

[Denter]

Melissa Harris Perry recently said in an ad,

"We have to break through our kind of private idea that kids belong to their parents or kids belong to their families, and recognize that kids belong to their communities."

You can see the ad here: http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/ke...s-kids-belong-their-communities#ixzz2PcF6W3RD

Do you agree or disagree with Ms Perry?

I'm kind of reminded of the old Bastiat quote, "Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society." Or even the Rothbard quip, "The great non sequitur committed by defenders of the State ... is to leap from the necessity of society to the necessity of the State."

Kids are wards of their parents, but don't "belong" to them.

 

[Concrete]

She can fuck right off.

 

[Touchstone]

That's up to the community to decide.

It was the great Communist ideal that kids belong to the society and hence there were a lot of completely inhuman practices and goals like "children should be raised by the state because only the state can make sure they acquire good habits".

Needless to say, this is a philosophy that is often aligned with totalitarianism.

In general, it's up to the society to decide how the children are raised. In modern America I think most agree that family is the default unit for raising kids and being responsible for them as long as they don't violate abuse guidelines specified by the state. This is my view as well.

 

[John Redcorn]

Kids are wards of their parents, but don't "belong" to them.

I definitely get what youre saying, and tend to agree. But the objection she threw up wasn't that they shouldn't be anyone's belonging, but instead that they should be the belonging of the community, which, for a person like MHP, means the state.

 

[PrettyRicky]

I don't think the word "belong" is fair. That makes it sound like the child is a possession. Children have the same individual rights as adults. Maybe responsibility is a better word. But I would say the parents have primary responsibility and society is secondary.

 

[BrokenCouch]

calm down hillbillies, she's talking about a moral abstract concept, not a literal legal grab for your children to be wards of the state.

thought that'd be obvious, but i guess it's hard to process when you are a few chromosomes short of a functioning human.

 

[RationalView]

calm down hillbillies, she's talking about a moral abstract concept, not a literal legal grab for your children to be wards of the state.

thought that'd be obvious, but i guess it's hard to process when you are a few chromosomes short of a functioning human.

This.

Look at the abstract concept guys, it actually makes sense from a larger scale social standpoint. Stop imagining policemen kicking in your door to take your kids and guns, as well as having Tyrone bang your wife.

 

[John Redcorn]

I don't think the word "belong" is fair. That makes it sound like the child is a possession. Children have the same individual rights as adults. Maybe responsibility is a better word. But I would say the parents have primary responsibility and society is secondary.

Children dont have the same individual rights as adults, at least not from any legal perspective.

calm down hillbillies, she's talking about a moral abstract concept, not a literal legal grab for your children to be wards of the state.

thought that'd be obvious, but i guess it's hard to process when you are a few chromosomes short of a functioning human.

Nah, did you check out the video? Shes bitching about voting and how we havent made good decisions through the state. No ones saying theyre gonna send all our kiddies off to pediatric concentration camps, but when she says community its clear she means the state.

 

[John Redcorn]

This.

Look at the abstract concept guys, it actually makes sense from a larger scale social standpoint. Stop imagining policemen kicking in your door to take your kids and guns, as well as having Tyrone bang your wife.

I think it comes down more to things like the state having more control over what schools your kids go to and what they learn there, things like that. I think theres also some effort to ingratiate the state with people at a young age.

If you think that thats a really radical fear, than youre being naive.

 

[Fawlty]

They do belong to the community, to a lesser degree than the parents, but like the point in the OP, community is confused with government.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I definitely get what youre saying, and tend to agree. But the objection she threw up wasn't that they shouldn't be anyone's belonging, but instead that they should be the belonging of the community, which, for a person like MHP, means the state.

So you're not as upset about what was actually said as you are by your unreasonable interpretation of what was said. This thread is a real winner.

 

[RationalView]

I think it comes down more to things like the state having more control over what schools your kids go to and what they learn there, things like that. I think theres also some effort to ingratiate the state with people at a young age.

If you think that thats a really radical fear, than youre being naive.

I understand what you mean, but is that really a rational fear in 2013? I mean, it seems that you fear government controlling what goes into your child's ears a la V for Vendetta or North Korea. I see a more 'social' idea about a community (in a developed country) perhaps taking steps forward in a more effective education of the population.

 

[equus]

we all belong as a piece to a larger puzzle. child to a family to a home to a community to a city to a state and so on and so forth. we all make up a community in some sense obviously. at the end of the day, im responsible for getting my children fed and clothed, not the community. if i fail, the community places a more integral role at that point.

 

[spamking]

Which is affected most as the result of something one of my children does wrong . . . our family or the community?

 

[Denter]

I definitely get what youre saying, and tend to agree. But the objection she threw up wasn't that they shouldn't be anyone's belonging, but instead that they should be the belonging of the community, which, for a person like MHP, means the state.

Yeah, that's wrong too.

Kids are their own individuals, and are wards of their parents until majority- obviously the community does have some stake in the welfare of children, but deference should always be given to parents first.

 

[BrokenCouch]

Which is affected most as the result of something one of my children does wrong . . . our family or the community?

if a child breaks your lamp, obviously it does not impact the community. if he's a little shit that bullies kids in his class, thinks that man rode on dinosaurs and that evolution is just a stupid theory, then it's a problem for the community.

 

[slipleft]

an ideology wanting to preserve its own existence would very well claim the broad communal responsibility of child upbringing... and that is exactly why i oppose the notion

at the core it is about shaping a child, which in itself presumes to understand what shape is proper

 

[John Redcorn]

I understand what you mean, but is that really a rational fear in 2013?

Um.... fuckin yeah. Lol, damn. Do people really think were in the end game here? Like we've finally attained perfection in government? Like the threat of some really harmful government program is no longer real? Incredible.