Describing "Base"

Coming back I see I was late to the party with my points! Oh well. Haha. I like the way Aesopian has distinguished base and balance. "Surfing" on top of someone is certainly better described as balance, and I suppose that's what I was getting at with my ratios.

I do feel as though 'base' and posture are something that needs to be considered while on bottom still. Allowing someone to have a heavy cross face and bring your spine out of alignment will get you passed in half guard, just as it will get your posture broken or allow a sweep on top.

How you use your hips from guard have a lot of parallels to how you use them from the top. After all, they can really only tilt back or forth. Where and when to use them and in what way depends largely on your position and goals, but you should really be using them at all times.

Often when I am making a mistake over and over, when I trouble shoot with my coach, it comes down to me not using my hips properly, and often I am just forgetting to even consider what they should be doing at all.
 
The way I see it, my 'base' is defined as the posts/supports that stop my centre of gravity from drifting too far past its last 'point of support' - or, simply put, that prevent me from falling over. If you push me sideways as I stand, and I take a step to the side to stop me from falling, the leg making that step provides base.

Being 'in [a position of] good base' would then mean assuming a position in which it is difficult for an external force to cause my centre of gravity to drift past its point of support in any direction. This is most easily achieved by lowering the centre of gravity and widening the base, as this provides a more advantageous angle for the force provided by the post against any opposing push. (Imagine standing in front of a car with a faulty handbrake and trying to keep it from rolling down a hill. Unless you're The Hulk, you would have to be leaning at a fairly acute angle in relation to the ground in order to have any chance at stopping the car.)

Just my 2c. Not a physicist, nor a black belt.

EDIT: I now see that Sloth already made the point about supports in much greater depth.
 
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I think it is over complexed and over detailed. Wrestling has had this figured out for 10,000 years. Base is just the combination of balance+pressure+structure. Where your weight is, (ie low in hips), how pressure is applied, and what the structure looks like is basically inconsequential; everyone's base looks different and is uniquely achieved. However, no matter what it looks like and how it is derived, it will achieve the same result.
 
I think it is over complexed and over detailed. Wrestling has had this figured out for 10,000 years. Base is just the combination of balance+pressure+structure. Where your weight is, (ie low in hips), how pressure is applied, and what the structure looks like is basically inconsequential; everyone's base looks different and is uniquely achieved. However, no matter what it looks like and how it is derived, it will achieve the same result.

Structure meaning where all your limbs are placed???

I think the fact that it looks different and is uniquely achieved is what makes it difficult to teach or explain.

Dirty Holt coming through with words of wisdom once again! Thanks, man...
 
I really like your definition of base Bill, but for me base can simply be defined as one's ability to protect their center of gravity. You see guys like Lo and MG protect their center of gravity by floating on the guy and changing their hips to protect their COG and never allow it to be compromised. Alternatively when they look to sweep, they get completely under the guy which compromises their opponents COG. Look at the Lo sweep, Lo uses spider guard control to get his opponent to step forward which allows Lo to shoot under his opponent and get almost full control of his opppnents COG which is why the Lo sweep is so effective even against bigger opponents like Orlando Sanchez. And MG's whole sweep game is designed around getting to his opponent's COG, the butterfly sweep and X guard rely on getting underneath your opponent and make it very easy to sweep from there (I believe in one of his books MG refers to this as the "balloon effect")

Those are just two examples, but in actuality all sweeps it takedowns result in first compromising your opponents COG, therefore having a good "base" just means that you don't allow your opponent to compromise your COG.
 
Nice write up Bill!


I think it's one of those things that is universally understood or felt by the individual but generally not discussed or analyzed by the group, unless you train in Clear water ;)


Interesting to talk about the nuances of base and balance. I think like others have mentioned, they go hand in hand. You need base to have balance.

It's hard for me to think eloquently in English after living in Japan for so long but I've really enjoyed reading everyone's ideas.
 
Good discussion, thanks for bringing this up Bill.

I was gonna write basically the same thing as Aesopian, so I will not repeat all that.

I agree that there are a few terms being mixed up here:

BASE is really connection to the ground, which is what Rickson talks a lot about incidently. You try to maintain it and keeping it strong enough not to be disrupted by the force vector the opponent puts on you.

BALANCE or more precisely BALANCINGis different, it just means staying on top and is often fluent. Balancing starts once the base is disrupted. You need to put out other pillars to not fall over. This can be just once and then returning to your base, or constant, as in floating (active posting) by constantly shifting your points of contact to the mat. You are definitely not in base when you are active posting.
Having base means having balance, but balancing does not mean having good base, as it is transient.

The SPIRAL approach Balto mentioned is really just redirecting the force vector of the opponent, which either means having a base strong enough to do that, or shifting base (e.g. stepping) to redirect the force. It often goes hand in hand with base. Rickson teaches in his stand-up to have a strong connection and not be moved, putting you in a position to be able to move the opponent. A great study in ground connection and where it gives stability and when it breaks down is Sumo. Watch some clips from the ongoing tournament in the thread here in F12, it is well worth it!

Also, what some have discussed about bringing someone closer to have more power is just using the human body more effectively or having better LEVERAGE. the only relation to base I see here is that you usually have to be able to disrupt your opponent's base to be able to do that.

POSTURE is also a little different from base and also BJJ and position-specific. You cannot have good posture without good base, but you can have good base without good posture. For example, putting both hands next to your opponent's head in guard gives you good base, but it is horrible posture.

All in all, it is only a matter of simple physics and mechanics, similar to what Holt was saying. A function of where forces (including gravity) are acting on the given system and how they are redirected. What makes it complex is that the human body is a sack of flesh and bones, instead of let's say a cement block. No complexity there.

It does come down to STRUCTURE (see: frames) and the CONNECTION to the ground. If you have a good structure, the force from your opponent redirects into the ground through your sKeletal system, which is effective, consumes less energy and allows you to stay in base.
 
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Bill, you'll be happy to know that just yesterday when I taught a beginners self defense class, I took the time at the end of class to define and demonstrate simple terms and concepts, one of them being "base."

The class started with the technical stand-up, which I told them is also called "standing up in base." I realized more white belts don't get what "base" means so I explained it explicitly.

I had them do a very simple drill to understand their base and balance. They just stood with their arms up in a basic defensive stance, and their partner walked around pushing and pull on them. They have to try to sink their hips and adjust their feet to keep a strong base. They lose when they are tipped over, usually when their head or hips end up in front of their toes or behind their heels.

That's a very, very simple drill, and boring to anyone with any experience, but I've found it to be a good for totally green white belts like I was teaching.

There are ways to stand up without base, like trying to hop straight to your feet and stand up with your feet together, which I had them try while their partner pushed on them. They kept stumbling and falling back down until they did the correct "stand up in base."

They were also learning the basic Gracie Jiu-Jitsu 101 clinch which has a strong emphasis on "base." You can almost hear Rorion say "base" every time you drill these because he drove that point so hard in the old VHS tapes.

From the clinch, I'd have their partner try to bully them, trip them up, and toss them around. They had to find how to position themselves so they weren't easily affected or off-balanced, while also being able to pressure and control their partner.

I define base as how you position yourself to maintain your balance and connect yourself to the ground. Your base is often on your feet or knees, but it can use your hands, elbows, shoulders, or head.

Your base can be connected to your opponent, like posting a hand on their hips, or your chest against their chest. Having your base on your opponent also be dangerous because then their motion can disrupt it, but this connection is also what allows you to apply pressure and control them.

A solid base tends to be wide with a low center of gravity. That center is usually in your hips, which is why sinking and dropping them down is so emphasized.

Good sweeps attack the opponent's base to off-balance them. If you can't break their base, then the sweep will be difficult and require too much effort and strength.

The words "base" and "balance" are often used interchangeably, but to me, balance is a slightly different concept.

The dictionary defines balance as "stability produced by even distribution of weight on each side of the vertical axis" and "the ability to retain one's balance."

The dictionary doesn't really have a definition for base as we use it, though the closest one is "the bottom of something considered as its support," which is comes from the word's use in architecture (like the base of a building or column).

I define balance is the ability to use one's sense of gravity to stay on top and maintain position.

Of course, that's usually done by maintaining a good base, but I believe you can have balance in moments where you lack base, like being able to ride sweeps or throw without being flipped. If you break it down in slow-mo, this balance is usually because they maintain a sense of their base while in the air, and they adjust themselves so they land in base, or in a way that lets them quickly regain their base.

What we mean by "good base" also factors in the the context (like a self defense situation) or rules of our sport. You see wrestlers achieve incredibly base by going bellydown and throwing their arms and legs out like starfish to prevent themselves from being flipped over and scored against. That will get you destroyed anywhere else, but hey, great base!

As people are already bringing up, there are different approaches to mainting base and balance (active, dynamic, static, slow, fast, etc.), and how posture ties into all this.

I'll try to get Sloth (Josh Vogel) in on this since he has an instructional series through www.bjjworkouts.com that focuses on very core concepts of base, balance, and posture.
 
***old post***

Oops, I meant to reply to aesopian. Anyway it's a great read from aesopian few years ago. I'm teaching my yearly 4 week kindergarten class and wanted to review this thread.

Also, I don't know what happened to my original post. It's gone.
 
A lot of shit got borked when they switched from glorious vbulletin masterrace to commoner xenforo.
 

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