Could Butterbean have Beaten Jim Corbett?

[Sunfish]

what I meant was I thought journeymen from those eras probably could beat the guys from the turn of the century, they look like rank amateurs.

Gotcha. Rocky would smash a lot of top ten heavyweights today regardless of the too small bullshit. Charles Martin vs Jack Dempsey. Seano probably has Martin but I don’t.

 

[DeJulez]

This one is in HD and is cleaner.
Corbett shows damn good footwork when you pay attention. Awkward angles he throws punches from but he moves soundly.
He would beat the Butters.

 

[RawHawg]

Tony Galento would "moida da bean"

 

[mozfonky]

ron lipton said that he never saw anyone hit a heavybag harder than the old man two ton tony and lipton had seen them all, including sonny liston.

 

[mozfonky]

This one is in HD and is cleaner.
Corbett shows damn good footwork when you pay attention. Awkward angles he throws punches from but he moves soundly.
He would beat the Butters.

gosh, i'm sorry, they look pretty bad, jims footwork is way ahead of most of those guys though.

 

[mozfonky]

also, i never will get the logic of them showing their asses like that, those were victorian times too.

 

[DeJulez]

gosh, i'm sorry, they look pretty bad, jims footwork is way ahead of most of those guys though.

He does the Ali Shuffle or some version of it.

 

[DeJulez]

also, i never will get the logic of them showing their asses like that, those were victorian times too.

Yea I really don't understand that. He seems to be the only one I've seen do it tho.

 

[mozfonky]

when i see that kind of footage it makes me really wonder what the older guys fought like, the real bare knucklers, mendoza and on back to the legendary greek times, were they like this? Worse? Better?

 

[Fluffernutter]

 

[Fluffernutter]

Tony Galento would "moida da bean"

In my opinion, Galento's conditioning was greatly underrated. Much like how George Foreman never really ate hamburgers while doing his roadwork, Tony didn't drink beer in between sparing sessions.

Tony's nickname was a misnomer. "Two Ton" was not about his weight, it was about his job.

Galento was an iceman. He literally went door to door selling blocks of ice in the city. He would walk up and down stairs carrying 50 lbs blocks of ice on his delivery route.

To make a decent living as an iceman in those days, you had to sell two tons of ice a day.

Carrying fifty pound blocks of ice up and down flights of stairs forty times in a day is exhausting. Heck, it could be an interesting CrossFit workout today.

The guy was pudgy, but was very strong and could still go 15 rounds.

 

[RawHawg]

I always liked hearing the very humble Joe Louis speak about his fight with Tony when he was asked how hard Tony hit, and Joe replied with something like "Well, he knocked me down, so I guess he hits hard enough!"

 

[HardasNAILZ]

Butterbean would have KOd him in the first round.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is retarded.

End of thread, you’re welcome.

 

[Prefect]

People brought up 2 ton tony already but i would like to say no for Butterbean. He isnt going to last that many rounds and a very old Hlmes boxed his ears off. Butter has a punchers chance and that is about it. I think the he would get wore down by the number of rounds and the grappling. The guys back then might not have great technique and neither does butter but they were all well conditioned and very game. Being the hw champion back then was like being royalty. Anyone that was good gave it a go.

 

[Sunfish]

From reading this thread I see random videos and people asking about trunks.

Simpson’s “shirt reference here”.

Can a man who swings haymakers low and wide and looking as if she’s adjusting to tear the skin off his troubles is cool by me, if he at least sparred.

Nobody wants my sic in exchange for there’s for a week?

 

[Kassitus]

Those guys fought for like 100 rounds. By round 20 even the best of modern HWs would retire from exaust. Butterbean could only win by KO.

 

[Breakfast Bar]

Yes, he could beat Butterbean. Corbett would have had perhaps the most prestigious pedigree in all of sports for a while as a boxing HW champion. His reflexes, stamina, accuracy, etc. would have dwarfed those of Butterbean to an even greater degree than Butterbean's physical size dwarfed his.

 

[Sunfish]

Yes, he could beat Butterbean. Corbett would have had perhaps the most prestigious pedigree in all of sports for a while as a boxing HW champion. His reflexes, stamina, accuracy, etc. would have dwarfed those of Butterbean to an even greater degree than Butterbean's physical size dwarfed his.

These threads are started to incite boxing fans to argue about something meaningless. Stop with your rational analysis!

 

[Fluffernutter]

I have to admit, I enjoy threads like this.

I have no idea what Butterbean's "prime" was. Therefore, I have no idea what his "prime weight" was.

Looking at Corbett, he won the title at 178 lbs and beat Sullivan (at 212) who was trying to brawl/wrestle/KO Corbett throughout.

• From the International Boxing Hall of Fame:

The match was hardly competitive. Corbett boxed beautifully, dancing around the ring, sidestepping Sullivan's irate rushes and peppering him with counters. In the 21st round, with Sullivan tiring badly, Corbett unleashed a series of punches that staggered the champion. Sullivan, bleeding and battered, retreated to a corner and grabbed hold of the top rope. Too tired to hold his hands up, a right hand dropped Sullivan to his knees. Sullivan managed to rise, but a crushing left-right combination pitched Sullivan forward on his face and chest. Finally he was counted out.


In Corbett's first defense, he also weight 184. According to this blurb, he hadn't taken the training as seriously and dreank most of his training camp. So, he had to settle by brawling a bit more than usual. However, please note that his opponent, Charley Mitchell, was only 165 lbs.

The following is from The Roar of the Crowd: The Rise and Fall of a Champion by James J. Corbett (1925):

The new champion Corbett had not carried his title well on the days he held it since dethroning long-reigning champion John L. Sullivan. He had been drinking heavily and was going up against one of the best fighters who mobbed the roped square at that time, Charlie Mitchell. Mitchell had previously held John L. Sullivan to a 51-round draw in France and was hoping to capture the title against Corbett. After Mitchell used his savvy tricks and experience to get the better of "Gentleman Jim" in round one, Corbett landed a right to the body that stopped Mitchell in his tracks and hurt him badly. Late in the round, after Corbett dropped Mitchell, Corbett was complaining to referee Kelly that he wasn't counting fast enough. After the bell sounded to end the round, Mitchell hit Corbett and instigated a fight. The seconds finally pulled the fighters apart to prevent a riot. When the gong sounded to begin the third, Corbett was all over Mitchell and knocked him cold with a picturesque right hand to the chin. Corbett had retained his title, regardless of the handicap drinking put him in before the fight.


As for his fight with Bob Fitzsimmons:

• The following is from "Corbett Lost Title To Fitzsimmons In Wild Boxing Drama" by Bill Brauchner:

The fight appeared to be Corbett's right up to the 14th and last round. He dealt Fitz terrific punishment. In the sixth round, Fitz, groggy from body blows, dropped to the floor. Crouching, he wrapped his arms around Corbett's legs.
There was a situation for George Siler, the referee! Corbett called to him to count. If he allowed a foul, guns would roar across the crude ring. If he broke Fitz's grip on the champion's legs, there would be just as heavy a barrage.
He hesitated for just a few fleeting seconds—then Fitz let go and sat down. And Siler began to count. At Siler's "nine" a refreshed Fitzsimmons arose. Afterward, Corbett insisted that Fitz was on the floor fully 15 seconds.
As he got up Fitz covered. Corbett tried to pry him from his shell, but he stayed the round.
Corbett had shot the works on the chance for a knockout. When he came out for the seventh he was tired. But he continued his punishment of the freckled Welshman, who kept trying continually for Corbett's body.
Fitzsimmons tried desperately for a punch that would land effectively. He swung from the floor with lefts and rights, staking his chances on one wild shot finding Its mark.
Finally one did. A long swing caught Jim in the pit of the stomach. Corbett, still conscious, went down. He reached vainly for the ropes, and fell on his face. Bob Fitzsimmons was the winner and the new champion.
When Corbett finally was able to begin breathing again, he was like a tiger. He rushed at Fitzsimmons, demanding another fight. But after that. Ruby Bob let Gentleman Jim strictly alone.

His first loss to Jeffries:

• The Atlanta Constitution reported the following:

Corbett emerged from a year's retirement from the ring rejuvenated and fresh. He was as fast and clever as back in the days when people marveled at his skill. His footwork was wonderful and his defense perfect. He outboxed his man at both long and short range, and if he had the strength necessary he would have gained an early victory. A hundred times he ducked the punch that knocked him out. At times he made the massive Jim look like a beginner in the art of offense and defense with his hands. It was a clean knockout that came so quickly that it dazed the thousands of keen spectators, and left them in doubt as to just how the winning blow was delivered. It was avowed that it was a left hand jolt to the jaw but Jeffries himself and Referee Charley White, who stood at his side, say it was a right hand swing.

• The Durango Democrat reported the following:

The finishing blow came suddenly and was a startling surprise. Corbett had been making a wonderful battle. His defense was absolutely perfect, and while he was lacking in strength, he had more than held his own and stood an excellent chance of winning the fight had it gone the limit. He had not been badly punished and had managed to mark his man severely. The winning punch was a short left to the jaw. Corbett dropped like weight and was clear out. Jeffries showed his ability to take punishment at any distance and hard. He was clearly outboxed and at times was made to look like a novice. The crowd, which numbered fully eight thousand, was with Corbett and his defeat fell upon a silent crowd. There were cheers for him when he revived and left the ring, and he was generally given more consideration than the victor. Corbett is still a factor in pugilistic fame. He has regained much of his old time form. The battle was clean and it is doubtful if there was a single infraction of the rules.
His second loss to Jeffries:

• The Baltimore Morning Herald reported the following on August 15, 1903:

James J. Jeffries, champion heavyweight of the world, played with Jim Corbett for nine rounds and a half tonight and then Corbett's seconds motioned Referee Graney to stop the fight in order to save their man from needless punishment. The end came shortly after the beginning of the tenth round, when Jeffries planted one of his terrific left swings on Corbett's stomach. The man who conquered John L. Sullivan then dropped to the floor in agony, and the memorable scene at Carson City, when Bob Fitzsimmons landed his solar plexus blow, was almost duplicated. This time, however, Corbett struggled to his feet and again faced his gigantic adversary. With hardly a moment's hesitation, Jeffries swung his right and again landed on Corbett's stomach. Jim dropped to the floor, and then it was that Tommy Ryan, seeing that it was all over, motioned to Referee Graney to stop the punishment.

 

[Fluffernutter]