Conditioning 100 years ago

flikerstance

flikerstance

floridaman
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how is it that you think men back then were able to box for 30 rounds have 8 hour Greco matches when we didn't have the nutrition nor exercise science we have today
 
Also, they could string words together into a sentence.
 
Emphasis was on conditioning and not on adding to their bench press.

They were also hardened men, not pussified snowflakes.
 
They probably couldn't hit as hard as they can today. Also they didn't have Gracie coaches back then.
 
The funny thing is vac
ThunderL1ps said:
Emphasis was on conditioning and not on adding to their bench press.

They were also hardened men, not pussified snowflakes.
Click to expand...
k then most men had a job and family and still had to take the time to train now there's guys who's whole life is to train and nothing else and couldn't do half of what they could do conditioning wise
 
i think it's all pain tolerance and being used to tough shit in general. no comfort, no electricity. every housewife from 100 years ago could probably give 90% of todays men a good beating. also the abscence of industrial food and the whole polution could be a reason. higher test levels?
 
Peer reviewed research that athletes were better conditioned a hundred years ago would be a good start.
 
I've gone 20 rounds before, I wasn't in user condition and it was against someone fitter than me. You don't really slow down much after a few rounds.

Also a lot of development you speak of us reinventing the wheel. It may be a better wheel but still.

Have you heard of Galen?

"A List of Ancient Exercises from Galen's De Sanitate Tuenda Galen (130 - 200 A.D.)

Hailed from Pergamon, an ancient center of civilization, containing, among other cultural institutions, a library second in importance only to Alexandria itself. Galen's training was eclectic and although his chief work was in biology and medicine, he was also known as a philosopher and philologist.

Training in philosophy is, in Galen's view, not merely a pleasant addition to, but an essential part of the training of a doctor. His treatise entitled That the best Doctor is also a Philosopher gives to us a rather surprising ethical reason for the doctor to study philosophy.

The profit motive, says Galen, is incompatible with a serious devotion to the art. The doctor must learn to despise money. Galen frequently accuses his colleagues of avarice and it is to defend the profession against this charge that he plays down the motive of financial gain in becoming a doctor.

Galen's first professional appointment was as surgeon to the gladiators in Pergamon. In his tenure as surgeon he undoubtedly gained much experience and practical knowledge in anatomy from the combat wounds he was compelled to treat. After four years he immigrated to Rome where he attained a brilliant reputation as a practitioner and a public demonstrator of anatomy. Among his patients were the Emperors Marcus Aurelius, Lucius Verus, Commodus and Septimius Severus.

Galen divides his exercises into three categories, which we may term "strong", "rapid and "violent", which is a combination of the preceding two. Galen's listing of the exercises gives us a fascinating glimpse into the everyday activities of the Paleastrae, Gymnasia and other more leisurely-areas of the ancient world.

The affinities they have with the various sporting events can be made out: kicking of the legs for Pankration, rope-climbing for wrestling, holding the arms up for boxing.

STRONG:
1) Digging
2) Picking up something heavy
3) Picking up something heavy and walking with it
4) Walking uphill
5) Climbing a rope using the hands and feet: commonly done to train boys in the wrestling schools
6) Hanging onto a rope or beam for as long as possible
7) Holding the arms straight out in front with fists closed
8) Holding the arms straight out to sides with fists closed
9) Holding out the arms while a partner pulls them down
10) The preceding three exercises but while holding something heavy such as jumping-weights
11) Breaking loose from a wrestling waist-lock
12) Holding onto a person trying to escape from a waist-lock
13) Picking up a man who is bending over at the hips and lifting him up and swinging him around
14) Doing the same but bending oneself at the hips also when picking him up
15) Pushing chest to chest trying to force the opponent backwards
16) Hanging from another's neck, attempting to drag him down

Exercises requiring a wrestling pit:
a) Entwine your partner with both your legs around one of his and try to apply a choke or force his head backwardsb) The same but using only one leg to entwine the opponents leg closest to yours
c) The same but using both legs to entwine both of the opponents legs.

Rapid:
1) Running
2) Shadow-boxing
3) Boxing
4) Hitting punching bags
5) Throwing and catching a small ball while running
6) Running back and forth, reducing the length each time until finished
7) Stand on the balls of the feet, put the arms up in the air and rapidly and alternatly bringing them forward and back; stand near a wall if afraid of losing ones's balance
8) Rolling on the wrestling-ground rapidly by oneself or with others9) Rapidly changing places with people next to one in a tightly packed group
10) Jumping up and kicking both legs together backwards
11) Kicking the legs forward alternatly
12) Move the arms up and down rapidly with open or closed fist, increasing in speed

VIOLENT:
1) Digging rapidly
2) Casting the discus
3) Jumping repeatedly with no rest
4) Throwing heavy spears and moving fast while wearing heavy armour
5) Any of the 'strong' exercises executed rapidly: presumably running uphill, swinging jumping weights forward and back, and lifting them up and down, chin-ups and so on.

Other Exercises:
1) Walking
2) bending up and down repeatedly at the hips
3) Lifting a weight up from the ground
4) Holding up an object for a long time
5) Full and loud breathing
6) Placing two weights on the ground approximately six feet from each other, picking up the one on the left with the right hand and then the one on the right with the left hand, then in turn placing them back where they came from on the ground and doing this many times with the feet stationary

The translation of this Galen text come's from an article at Judoinfo.com Submission Fighting and the Rules of Ancient Greek Wrestling By Christopher Miller"
 
flikerstance said:
The funny thing is vac

k then most men had a job and family and still had to take the time to train now there's guys who's whole life is to train and nothing else and couldn't do half of what they could do conditioning wise
Click to expand...



I think you'd have to ask some questions like:

Are they training the same way?

Are they expending their energy the same way when they fought and trained?

I'm no expert by any means, but i have seen older fights from which you're talking about on terrible video and it looks like they aren't as busy overall, but still have their flurries. Stylistically those fights with rounds that go on forever, it looks like they are pacing themselves to go a long time, not try to knock their opponent out in the first round or two.

With grappling? I have no idea how you have an 8 hour match without stalling and even then, that would be incredibly exhausting. I've trained in judo and I've felt pumps in my hands, forearms and biceps that lasted for hours on end after just a 10 to 20 minutes session of randori. I can't imagine ever doing that for eight hours straight and how my body would feel or if I could even physically be conditioned to do that. But there has to be a way. It's likely not conventional to training methods we are presently using and I'm sure they're not pleasant.
 
Last edited:
Phlog said:
I've gone 20 rounds before, I wasn't in user condition and it was against someone fitter than me. You don't really slow down much after a few rounds.

Also a lot of development you speak of us reinventing the wheel. It may be a better wheel but still.

Have you heard of Galen?

"A List of Ancient Exercises from Galen's De Sanitate Tuenda Galen (130 - 200 A.D.)

Hailed from Pergamon, an ancient center of civilization, containing, among other cultural institutions, a library second in importance only to Alexandria itself. Galen's training was eclectic and although his chief work was in biology and medicine, he was also known as a philosopher and philologist.

Training in philosophy is, in Galen's view, not merely a pleasant addition to, but an essential part of the training of a doctor. His treatise entitled That the best Doctor is also a Philosopher gives to us a rather surprising ethical reason for the doctor to study philosophy.

The profit motive, says Galen, is incompatible with a serious devotion to the art. The doctor must learn to despise money. Galen frequently accuses his colleagues of avarice and it is to defend the profession against this charge that he plays down the motive of financial gain in becoming a doctor.

Galen's first professional appointment was as surgeon to the gladiators in Pergamon. In his tenure as surgeon he undoubtedly gained much experience and practical knowledge in anatomy from the combat wounds he was compelled to treat. After four years he immigrated to Rome where he attained a brilliant reputation as a practitioner and a public demonstrator of anatomy. Among his patients were the Emperors Marcus Aurelius, Lucius Verus, Commodus and Septimius Severus.

Galen divides his exercises into three categories, which we may term "strong", "rapid and "violent", which is a combination of the preceding two. Galen's listing of the exercises gives us a fascinating glimpse into the everyday activities of the Paleastrae, Gymnasia and other more leisurely-areas of the ancient world.

The affinities they have with the various sporting events can be made out: kicking of the legs for Pankration, rope-climbing for wrestling, holding the arms up for boxing.

STRONG:
1) Digging
2) Picking up something heavy
3) Picking up something heavy and walking with it
4) Walking uphill
5) Climbing a rope using the hands and feet: commonly done to train boys in the wrestling schools
6) Hanging onto a rope or beam for as long as possible
7) Holding the arms straight out in front with fists closed
8) Holding the arms straight out to sides with fists closed
9) Holding out the arms while a partner pulls them down
10) The preceding three exercises but while holding something heavy such as jumping-weights
11) Breaking loose from a wrestling waist-lock
12) Holding onto a person trying to escape from a waist-lock
13) Picking up a man who is bending over at the hips and lifting him up and swinging him around
14) Doing the same but bending oneself at the hips also when picking him up
15) Pushing chest to chest trying to force the opponent backwards
16) Hanging from another's neck, attempting to drag him down

Exercises requiring a wrestling pit:
a) Entwine your partner with both your legs around one of his and try to apply a choke or force his head backwardsb) The same but using only one leg to entwine the opponents leg closest to yours
c) The same but using both legs to entwine both of the opponents legs.

Rapid:
1) Running
2) Shadow-boxing
3) Boxing
4) Hitting punching bags
5) Throwing and catching a small ball while running
6) Running back and forth, reducing the length each time until finished
7) Stand on the balls of the feet, put the arms up in the air and rapidly and alternatly bringing them forward and back; stand near a wall if afraid of losing ones's balance
8) Rolling on the wrestling-ground rapidly by oneself or with others9) Rapidly changing places with people next to one in a tightly packed group
10) Jumping up and kicking both legs together backwards
11) Kicking the legs forward alternatly
12) Move the arms up and down rapidly with open or closed fist, increasing in speed

VIOLENT:
1) Digging rapidly
2) Casting the discus
3) Jumping repeatedly with no rest
4) Throwing heavy spears and moving fast while wearing heavy armour
5) Any of the 'strong' exercises executed rapidly: presumably running uphill, swinging jumping weights forward and back, and lifting them up and down, chin-ups and so on.

Other Exercises:
1) Walking
2) bending up and down repeatedly at the hips
3) Lifting a weight up from the ground
4) Holding up an object for a long time
5) Full and loud breathing
6) Placing two weights on the ground approximately six feet from each other, picking up the one on the left with the right hand and then the one on the right with the left hand, then in turn placing them back where they came from on the ground and doing this many times with the feet stationary

The translation of this Galen text come's from an article at Judoinfo.com Submission Fighting and the Rules of Ancient Greek Wrestling By Christopher Miller"
Click to expand...
That's very cool! Thanks!

Discus, javelin throwing, running uphill and so forth sounds like excellent power production exercises.

I found this link to the whole thing: https://www.scribd.com/document/875...cient-Greek-Wrestling-Pale-Christopher-Miller

Might be interested in reading it through. People often forget that humans have been fighting and training for thousands of years and our anatomy and physiology has barely changed, if at all.
 
Phlog said:
I've gone 20 rounds before, I wasn't in user condition and it was against someone fitter than me. You don't really slow down much after a few rounds.

Also a lot of development you speak of us reinventing the wheel. It may be a better wheel but still.

Have you heard of Galen?

"A List of Ancient Exercises from Galen's De Sanitate Tuenda Galen (130 - 200 A.D.)

Hailed from Pergamon, an ancient center of civilization, containing, among other cultural institutions, a library second in importance only to Alexandria itself. Galen's training was eclectic and although his chief work was in biology and medicine, he was also known as a philosopher and philologist.

Training in philosophy is, in Galen's view, not merely a pleasant addition to, but an essential part of the training of a doctor. His treatise entitled That the best Doctor is also a Philosopher gives to us a rather surprising ethical reason for the doctor to study philosophy.

The profit motive, says Galen, is incompatible with a serious devotion to the art. The doctor must learn to despise money. Galen frequently accuses his colleagues of avarice and it is to defend the profession against this charge that he plays down the motive of financial gain in becoming a doctor.

Galen's first professional appointment was as surgeon to the gladiators in Pergamon. In his tenure as surgeon he undoubtedly gained much experience and practical knowledge in anatomy from the combat wounds he was compelled to treat. After four years he immigrated to Rome where he attained a brilliant reputation as a practitioner and a public demonstrator of anatomy. Among his patients were the Emperors Marcus Aurelius, Lucius Verus, Commodus and Septimius Severus.

Galen divides his exercises into three categories, which we may term "strong", "rapid and "violent", which is a combination of the preceding two. Galen's listing of the exercises gives us a fascinating glimpse into the everyday activities of the Paleastrae, Gymnasia and other more leisurely-areas of the ancient world.

The affinities they have with the various sporting events can be made out: kicking of the legs for Pankration, rope-climbing for wrestling, holding the arms up for boxing.

STRONG:
1) Digging
2) Picking up something heavy
3) Picking up something heavy and walking with it
4) Walking uphill
5) Climbing a rope using the hands and feet: commonly done to train boys in the wrestling schools
6) Hanging onto a rope or beam for as long as possible
7) Holding the arms straight out in front with fists closed
8) Holding the arms straight out to sides with fists closed
9) Holding out the arms while a partner pulls them down
10) The preceding three exercises but while holding something heavy such as jumping-weights
11) Breaking loose from a wrestling waist-lock
12) Holding onto a person trying to escape from a waist-lock
13) Picking up a man who is bending over at the hips and lifting him up and swinging him around
14) Doing the same but bending oneself at the hips also when picking him up
15) Pushing chest to chest trying to force the opponent backwards
16) Hanging from another's neck, attempting to drag him down

Exercises requiring a wrestling pit:
a) Entwine your partner with both your legs around one of his and try to apply a choke or force his head backwardsb) The same but using only one leg to entwine the opponents leg closest to yours
c) The same but using both legs to entwine both of the opponents legs.

Rapid:
1) Running
2) Shadow-boxing
3) Boxing
4) Hitting punching bags
5) Throwing and catching a small ball while running
6) Running back and forth, reducing the length each time until finished
7) Stand on the balls of the feet, put the arms up in the air and rapidly and alternatly bringing them forward and back; stand near a wall if afraid of losing ones's balance
8) Rolling on the wrestling-ground rapidly by oneself or with others9) Rapidly changing places with people next to one in a tightly packed group
10) Jumping up and kicking both legs together backwards
11) Kicking the legs forward alternatly
12) Move the arms up and down rapidly with open or closed fist, increasing in speed

VIOLENT:
1) Digging rapidly
2) Casting the discus
3) Jumping repeatedly with no rest
4) Throwing heavy spears and moving fast while wearing heavy armour
5) Any of the 'strong' exercises executed rapidly: presumably running uphill, swinging jumping weights forward and back, and lifting them up and down, chin-ups and so on.

Other Exercises:
1) Walking
2) bending up and down repeatedly at the hips
3) Lifting a weight up from the ground
4) Holding up an object for a long time
5) Full and loud breathing
6) Placing two weights on the ground approximately six feet from each other, picking up the one on the left with the right hand and then the one on the right with the left hand, then in turn placing them back where they came from on the ground and doing this many times with the feet stationary

The translation of this Galen text come's from an article at Judoinfo.com Submission Fighting and the Rules of Ancient Greek Wrestling By Christopher Miller"
Click to expand...
It's like viewing a thousand year old Crossfit trainer manual.
 
Sano said:
That's very cool! Thanks!

Discus, javelin throwing, running uphill and so forth sounds like excellent power production exercises.

I found this link to the whole thing: https://www.scribd.com/document/875...cient-Greek-Wrestling-Pale-Christopher-Miller

Might be interested in reading it through. People often forget that humans have been fighting and training for thousands of years and our anatomy and physiology has barely changed, if at all.
Click to expand...

Bruce Lee said something to the effect that, until humans start growing extra limbs, there will be no new martial arts. Just variations on techniques and principals that have already existed for thousands of years.
 
KnightTemplar said:
Bruce Lee said something to the effect that, until humans start growing extra limbs, there will be no new martial arts. Just variations on techniques and principals that have already existed for thousands of years.
Click to expand...
A lot of people want to believe that each generation is inherently better than the one before (especially if it's their own), or that every new recycled fitness trend is somehow revolutionary. Just think about how several thousand years ago men were fighting to the death as gladiators in the colosseum. We are soft and coddled compared to most who lived before. Not that I'm complaining lol. I'm thankful for the privilege to not only live in this time, but in the part of the world that I do. Sucks having no heat, running water, electricity so forth. Think about it! I wouldn't even be able to post on Sherdog! The horror!

Anyway, keeping with the retro theme. Found this cool nugget from the 1936s olympics (forget about the nazi theme for a bit):


Notice the 100m, the javelin throw, the highjump at 0:50 and the long jump at 2:00. They did that shit 81 years ago, and they ran on sandy fields with shit equipment.
 
The 30 rounds of boxing weren't the same thing as it is today. Rounds for us today are 3 minutes with one minute break. Back then rounds were till someone hit the ground. You could also take knees. The lack of gloves made it slower paced. Really if you want to be impressed by something look at the boxers who did 15 3 minute rounds every time they defended a title. That's a lot harder. Tho that one fight with John L Sullivan that was 2 hours long is still impressive.
 
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