Crime Car Plows Into Crowd During Protests in Virginia (Video - Graphic)

[FacePunch]

Germany declared war on the United States. It was different. They were different nazis. The word "nazi" is being overused right now.

No, it isn't. These guys are carrying swastika flags, chanting anti-Semitism, saluting Heil Hitlers, and murdering people. These are textbook Neo-Nazis. Its what they are.

 

[ehtheist]

My grandfather told me stories about how he killed Nazis. I remember when everyone was on the same page that Nazis should all be killed. Its OK to meet violent, predatory ideologies with overwhelming force. That is what I believe. Was it wrong to kill the Nazis in WWII?

Of course not - but, Nazis had gone well past the point of political discourse within an open and democratic society and into the political hegemony where the ruling power was rounding up sovereign citizens and having them killed. Until they come even *close* to this level, or even the point where masses of them are actively organizing to commit acts of terror, surely you can see the difference between these two situations? If I have a student in a class who confesses to being a peaceful white nationalist who believes in racial superiority but only intends to pursue it in totally legal, non-violent, democratic ways, should I send him off to the camp? Who's the one tending towards totalitarian tendencies then?

Your "My grandpappy killed the Nazis and by my belief in no deity, I should too!" thing is just another shade of extremism which can thrive on all parts of the political spectrum. Take a step back and be careful that you're not the one, this time, suggesting that peaceful people should be rounded up and sent to camps.

 

[Gervinho]

Americas ugly side being exposed......you guys love to pretend there is little racism in america. I dont think so

 

[ehtheist]

No, it isn't. These guys are carrying swastika flags, chanting anti-Semitism, saluting Heil Hitlers, and murdering people. These are textbook Neo-Nazis. Its what they are.

So, how many of them murdered someone? Should we extend this reasoning to, say, Muslims - when one rams a truck into a group of people, we round up the lot and send them to Guantanamo? What about the Bernie Bro who recently shot a Republican political figure? What about the black gay guy who murdered those white journalists? What do we do to that group of black kids who beat up that disabled boy on youtube? What do we do to BLM members who riot and become violent - and then the rest of the movement that fostered them? Does your blanket "Well, yeah, they didn't actually murder anyone, but they were making the same salutes as that dude and read the same books!" extend beyond the extreme Right and encompass any number of other groups we could peg with similar guilt by association and some shared beliefs? Careful, because as with many other dangerous tools, you use it for your ends, but the other side will pick it up and start using it when you're done with it - against groups you support.

Show me some sign that there was organization to commit murder, that this is supported by that community, and then we talk. Until then, by suggesting you round up the people chanting and saluting, you're literally suggesting treating people as murderers for shared political belief.

 

[dontsnitch]

Isn't this a reflection of precisely the type of behaviour that we tend to hate Nazis and other fascists for? "If we don't like them, SEND THEM TO A CAMP!"? Don't fall into the Antifa trap, becoming a dark mirror of precisely the type of thing you're claiming you oppose.

The irony of this whole Charlotteville thing is, the rednecks and bigots protesting had already lost - they were protesting a statue being taken down that was already marked in to be removed. They're losing everywhere, all the time, and even when things like the KKK are down to all time low membership levels, they fart in a room and it makes headlines - we keep making them a thing, putting them in the center. They've lost - the world is moving on - don't keep giving them the spotlight and attention they want. Just let them fade into obscurity...

Do you really believe angry white people are going to fade into obscurity? I'm seeing that the US is providing very fertile soil for them to grow in. The culture of white supremacy will become a self-fulfilling prophecy unless they change course, IMO.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

No, it isn't. These guys are carrying swastika flags, chanting anti-Semitism, saluting Heil Hitlers, and murdering people. These are textbook Neo-Nazis. Its what they are.

No it's not. Sorry, pal.

 

[electricfuneral]

So, how many of them murdered someone? Should we extend this reasoning to, say, Muslims - when one rams a truck into a group of people, we round up the lot and send them to Guantanamo? What about the Bernie Bro who recently shot a Republican political figure? What about the black gay guy who murdered those white journalists? What do we do to that group of black kids who beat up that disabled boy on youtube? What do we do to BLM members who riot and become violent - and then the rest of the movement that fostered them? Does your blanket "Well, yeah, they didn't actually murder anyone, but they were making the same salutes as that dude and read the same books!" extend beyond the extreme Right and encompass any number of other groups we could peg with similar guilt by association and some shared beliefs? Careful, because as with many other dangerous tools, you use it for your ends, but the other side will pick it up and start using it when you're done with it - against groups you support.

Show me some sign that there was organization to commit murder, that this is supported by that community, and then we talk. Until then, by suggesting you round up the people chanting and saluting, you're literally suggesting treating people as murderers for shared political belief.

People having to waste their time defending nazis is just delicious.

 

[Jack V Savage]

20 year old Ohio resident. Participated in the white supremacist rally. Unsurprisingly, when 4chan claimed it was a black communist, they were wrong.

I think "wrong" is way overly generous.

The irony of this whole Charlotteville thing is, the rednecks and bigots protesting had already lost - they were protesting a statue being taken down that was already marked in to be removed. They're losing everywhere, all the time, and even when things like the KKK are down to all time low membership levels, they fart in a room and it makes headlines - we keep making them a thing, putting them in the center. They've lost - the world is moving on - don't keep giving them the spotlight and attention they want. Just let them fade into obscurity...

Meh. The president of the United States of America is refusing to condemn them (and BTW, contrast Obama's speech at the funeral of Roof's victims and his comments following the Dallas cop shooting with Trump's--no better illustration of the gap in the caliber of men they are) and voter suppression laws are on the rise. They aren't that powerful, but they are on the rise.

 

[FacePunch]

So, how many of them murdered someone? Should we extend this reasoning to, say, Muslims - when one rams a truck into a group of people, we round up the lot and send them to Guantanamo? What about the Bernie Bro who recently shot a Republican political figure? What about the black gay guy who murdered those white journalists? What do we do to that group of black kids who beat up that disabled boy on youtube? What do we do to BLM members who riot and become violent - and then the rest of the movement that fostered them? Does your blanket "Well, yeah, they didn't actually murder anyone, but they were making the same salutes as that dude and read the same books!" extend beyond the extreme Right and encompass any number of other groups we could peg with similar guilt by association and some shared beliefs? Careful, because as with many other dangerous tools, you use it for your ends, but the other side will pick it up and start using it when you're done with it - against groups you support.

Show me some sign that there was organization to commit murder, that this is supported by that community, and then we talk. Until then, by suggesting you round up the people chanting and saluting, you're literally suggesting treating people as murderers for shared political belief.

My views on Islam are well known on this forum. They're considered extreme.

This was certainly organized violence. They showed up with riot gear on, to incite a riot.

If you don't like how my brush paints these Neo Nazis, just remember this thread the next time some college kids at Berkley get butthurt about Milo or Shapiro and you label the entire "left" as a bunch of violent thugs.

 

[ReAnimator Reagan]

Americas ugly side being exposed......you guys love to pretend there is little racism in america. I dont think so

Exactly, extremists on one side bring out extremists on the other side.

 

[Whippy McGee]

Uh... You realize the person running over humans was a nationalist, right?

I don't give a shit if he is a green alien from the planet butthurt, he's an asshole.

 

[FacePunch]

No it's not. Sorry, pal.

It exactly is that. Good to know where you stand though.

 

[nac386]

About as edgy as I'd expect from a guy who chose to call himself "Lucifer Alpha."

I assumed people would get that it was a joke.

It's weird though how defensive people are of Nazis in this thread. For example, lots of people who rant and rave about liberal college kids are fairly indifferent about Nazi flags and white natuonalists. You don't find that a bit unsettling? My grandfather fought in WW2, the generation that "made America great" and he'd be disgusted that there seems to be some weird group of white guys that want to bring their twisted and deranged ideals back.

 

[Old Cat]

Because you sound like a terrorist sympathizer.

Hum.. okay. But I'm not.

I would like to know what happened, things usually are not so easily reduced to one word summations or labels.

You might be right, he might just be a crazy guy hell bent killing people, but other explanations could also be in play.

The video sort of indicates something else might have happened.

Something tragic took place, on that we can both agree.

 

[WiolentOne]

So, being triggered by someone gives you a right to run totally different people over? I could sympathize if it was self defence but, according to the video, the people he ran over weren't anywhere near to him, you can't build up the speed he had from a couple of feet away.

Everybody has th right to free speech. Both the nazis and the protesters. Saying that the violence is their fault for exercising their right is utter bullshit.

Someone can approach you and your 4 year old daughter and tell her that she should be raped to death if he wants and if you respond violently it's YOUR fault not his. Didn't your mother ever tell you about sticks and stones?

Actually, nincompoop, the protesters (who had a legal permit to be there) were assaulted with rock, bottles, and sticks.

 

[Strychnine]

Did the trial finish already?

Well, what do you call it then?

A drive to an Ice cream social gone horribly wrong?

 

[Jack V Savage]

It's weird though how defensive people are of Nazis in this thread. For example, lots of people who rant and rave about liberal college kids are fairly indifferent about Nazi flags and white natuonalists. You don't find that a bit unsettling?

I like the contrast between right-wing revisionists who say, "actually, the KKK and Nazis were on the left," and right-wingers who say that they're not that bad.

 

[Amerikuracana]

No, it isn't. These guys are carrying swastika flags, chanting anti-Semitism, saluting Heil Hitlers, and murdering people. These are textbook Neo-Nazis. Its what they are.

I think we need a more harsh word for lifelong criminal blacks who rob stores, ruin areas, and hate white people. They murder a lot more than the losers you're complaining about itt, yet "thug" doesn't sound quite as despicable as neo Nazi.

Young alt-righters seem like total dorks to me. They aren't my thing. Neither are kkk losers, because they burned a cross in my grandfather's yard for being Catholic and not doing business with them. Not a fan. But this was ONE stupid loser hitting the gas who MIGHT, OR might not, have been under physical threat. Detroiters are moving out to these suburbs and doing something equally bad weekly. Little kids getting shot in the city, weekly. Murder and crime crime culture on display, weekly. You want people to get more excited about this extremely rare incident than the not so rare incidents of whites being victims of black crime. Same with the media. A murder is a tragedy and racist rallies where anti-protestors will likely he hurt are a bad thing. This was a bad thing. But the over-exitement about this, pretending it's a main problem in America when statistics and the eye test say it's not, while under-exitement about black crime and their racist rallies and riots is the norm... Whites are tired of being fucking blamed people. Even the ones who voted for Obama and would never side with somebody holding a swastika flag.

 

[Strychnine]

Trump needs to do this tomorrow.

He should've done it from the get-go but...

 

[ehtheist]

Do you really believe angry white people are going to fade into obscurity? I'm seeing that the US is providing very fertile soil for them to grow in. The culture of white supremacy will become a self-fulfilling prophecy unless they change course, IMO.

I believe that many of the current groups will fade into obscurity, yes. Angry white people will absolutely always exist, but they change form to adapt to the times - and I don't believe that the times will support an increasingly white minority with newer generations being increasingly indoctrinated away from a racial theme and more towards colorblind racial themes. The KKK, oriented along racial lines, has been shrinking for decades - but the extreme Right still exists.

I believe the extreme right of the future will not be purely white and will be organized along national, or even more abstract ideological lines, rather than racial.

Take a look, in your own country, at something like the Bloc Quebecois and what happened to it in the past decade or so. I remember in an early 2000's election they got absolutely *destroyed* pushing their hard Quebec nationalist line and since then they've slowly toned it down to gain ground back, pushing raw Quebec nationalist less and less to appeal to a newer generation of Quebecers that, again, cared about that kind of nationalism less and less. Now I see things like this:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/are-the-ndp-more-bloc-than-the-bloc/article624995/

Because the party that used to be "Quebec must be its own nation!" has had to change the shape of its nationalism because not enough people support it any more.

The white racial supremacist movement has been shifting further and further away from the center for a long time now, and these last few generations of young people produced by Western culture are going to hit it like a hammer. Will there still be "angry white people"? Sure. Will there still be an extreme right? Absolutely. I'll bet you *far* more of them won't care if gay people can get married though, and they probably won't lose much sleep if their kids get involved with a black guy. Or, at least, far fewer of them will, and that erodes the power base of this kind of extreme Right at its very core.