Can anyone defend the idea of NOT investigating Trump's admin?

[lfd0311]

Flynn never existed to you did he.



WOW.

There is stupid, there is the average Trump supporter, then there is this.

The struggle is real.

See, this is the response of the average Liberal. WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE? Provide some. I'm not even a Trump supporter, P.S., This is so obviously a put up job to anybody not completely indoctrinated in Leftist nonsense that it's painful to watch. 3 months now of speculation, accusations and mudslinging, totally unsubstantiated by a single FACT.

 

[lfd0311]

Agreed though I think some of his peeps have questionable links.

They want to do business with Russia. That has been pretty much his policy since before his presidency. That was why he put Tillerson in his position. That was actually nearly verbatim what he said. The Left hates Russia because, you know, homophobia and stuff.

 

[klnOmega]

What exactly do people think Flynn did that was illegal?

I've seen two things:
1) He backchanneled with the Russians, possibly violating the Hatch act
and
2)He had $46k in undisclosed speaking fees

As to 1, there is no evidence that this happened. We know that he had contact with Kislyak on several occasions, which is completely normal. Even more importantly, we know that the FBI and Intel Community have recordings of every one of those meetings, meaning that if he was backchanneling, we should clearly know that by now.

For 2, that just violates policies and rules, it isn't actually illegal. It isn't great, and its probably good he was removed since the National Security Advisor especially shouldn't have any undisclosed shit like this, but it is also pretty normal. Hell, the Clinton foundation had like $26 million in undisclosed speaking fees.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

They want to do business with Russia. That has been pretty much his policy since before his presidency. That was why he put Tillerson in his position. That was actually nearly verbatim what he said. The Left hates Russia because, you know, homophobia and stuff.

... the left hates Russia because of homophobia...?
I'm lost

 

[lfd0311]

... the left hates Russia because of homophobia...?
I'm lost

Obviously I was being facetious. But there isn't a real reason why all of these years after the Cold War we still need conflict with Russia. Russia had actively been trying to draw closer to the West in the aftermath of 9/11. Bush destroyed all of that and Obama didn't make it any better. This administration is trying to rebuild that relationship.

 

[HIMBOB]

See, this is the response of the average Liberal. WHAT IS THE EVIDENCE? Provide some. I'm not even a Trump supporter, P.S., This is so obviously a put up job to anybody not completely indoctrinated in Leftist nonsense that it's painful to watch. 3 months now of speculation, accusations and mudslinging, totally unsubstantiated by a single FACT.

Investigations look at accusations genius.
Investigations come first.


Saying they did nothing wrong when Flynn stepped down for lying is the result of a clouded mind.
Why did he step down in your mind?

 

[lfd0311]

Investigations look at accusations genius.
Investigations come first.


Saying they did nothing wrong when Flynn stepped down for lying is the result of a clouded mind.
Why did he step down in your mind?

So.... you don't have anything? He stepped down because he wasn't honest with the VP. Get your facts straight. Actually, find out what a "fact" is in the first place. Jesus, you people. You don't even have an actual understanding of the story, just repeat what you hear on the news. It is so easy to make you people look foolish.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Obviously I was being facetious. But there isn't a real reason why all of these years after the Cold War we still need conflict with Russia. Russia had actively been trying to draw closer to the West in the aftermath of 9/11. Bush destroyed all of that and Obama didn't make it any better. This administration is trying to rebuild that relationship.

We don't "need conflict" with Russia and relaxing about our mutual issues can be a good thing, but it has to be done with caution. Not under a bumblefuck POTUS facing a cagey Russian strongman.
With another leader like Gorby it'd be a perfect time and opportunity.

 

[lfd0311]

We don't "need conflict" with Russia and relaxing about our mutual issues can be a good thing, but it has to be done with caution. Not under a bumblefuck POTUS facing a cagey Russian strongman.
With another leader like Gorby it'd be a perfect time and opportunity.

I'm not even saying we need to be friends. But we don't constantly need to be at odds. And lets be totally honest, do you think Trump is seriously making decisions?

 

[HIMBOB]

So.... you don't have anything? He stepped down because he wasn't honest with the VP. Get your facts straight. Actually, find out what a "fact" is in the first place. Jesus, you people. You don't even have an actual understanding of the story, just repeat what you hear on the news. It is so easy to make you people look foolish.

So we agree he stepped down because he lied to the VP. Now stop me if I am wrong but senior government officals lying about their interactions with foreign government would fall into the "WRONG" category, no? How not?

If it was not wrong why would he step down??? (


AND lastly I know you think you have outsmarted me but believe me when I tell you I have literally no doubt in my mind that an impartial observer would think you retarded. Arguning he stepped down for not doign anything wrong, I mean seriously how does your head work???

 

[HIMBOB]

We don't "need conflict" with Russia and relaxing about our mutual issues can be a good thing, but it has to be done with caution. Not under a bumblefuck POTUS facing a cagey Russian strongman.

Hear, hear!!!

(Actually do Americans use that????)

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I'm not even saying we need to be friends. But we don't constantly need to be at odds. And lets be totally honest, do you think Trump is seriously making decisions?

Do you mean, do I think others are mostly running the show?
He's a pretty big ego. I'm betting no, based on his seeming inability to take advice.

 

[lfd0311]

Do you mean, do I think others are mostly running the show?
He's a pretty big ego. I'm betting no, based on his seeming inability to take advice.

Yes, that's what I mean. There is a reason that adminstration is built the way it is. He isn't doing a whole lot of running of the actual government.

 

[lfd0311]

So we agree he stepped down because he lied to the VP. Now stop me if I am wrong but senior government officals lying about their interactions with foreign government would fall into the "WRONG" category, no? How not?

If it was not wrong why would he step down??? (


AND lastly I know you think you have outsmarted me but believe me when I tell you I have literally no doubt in my mind that an impartial observer would think you retarded. Arguning he stepped down for not doign anything wrong, I mean seriously how does your head work???

Yes, what he wasn't clear about was that he first told the VP that he hadn't talked about sanctions with the Russians. He then came back and said that he had mentioned that they would discuss it at a later date. That's literally what we're talking about. Now connect the dots with that to him or anyone else for that matter being a secret Russian agent, or to any other aspects of collusion of any kind with the Russians. Go ahead. i'll wait.

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

Yes, that's what I mean. There is a reason that adminstration is built the way it is. He isn't doing a whole lot of running of the actual government.

We'll never know, just like with any other POTUS.
I can recall at twelve years old wondering how much influence his wife's favorite astrologer had on Reagan's decisions.

 

[HIMBOB]

Yes, what he wasn't clear about was that he first told the VP that he hadn't talked about sanctions with the Russians. He then came back and said that he had mentioned that they would discuss it at a later date. That's literally what we're talking about. Now connect the dots with that to him or anyone else for that matter being a secret Russian agent, or to any other aspects of collusion of any kind with the Russians. Go ahead. i'll wait.

So he lied to the VP and you feel that was not wrong?

If itt was just some uncertainty he would have lasted a month.

 

[Unsurprised Diaz]

I'm all for a thorough investigation as long as they stick with the last decade's overriding protocol with political and economic scandals and sweep it under the carpet

 

[lfd0311]

So he lied to the VP and you feel that was not wrong?

If itt was just some uncertainty he would have lasted a month.

Your inability to look past Liberal talking points is embarrassing. He didn't discuss the sanctions at all. This was a political move by the Trump administration to try to get out in front of what has since been happening. We're literally talking about "we'll talk about sanctions at a later date". Draw the picture of collusion with Russia. I'm still waiting.

 

[konagold]

Take an objective look at the situation. What actual reason does the US have to have a continuous cycle of conflict with Russia? There isn't one. The regime that Regan went up agianst collapsed 26 years ago. That's a pretty important fact you seem to be ignoring. 26 years. That's a long time. There are fully grown adults who never lived under the Soviet Union, yet people like you want to act like Russia today = The Soviet Union. Why? For old time's sake?

You make a fair point, and one that even the Obama administration pursued (the "reset"). No one in their right minds, except for a few Cold Warriors WANTS to have a contentious relationship with the Russians. But there's no avoiding that on some very key issues, the US and Russia just do not see eye to eye. Expansion of NATO; Russian designs on becoming a bigger player in the Middle East; Ukraine/Crimea; more expansionist rhetoric that has Baltic nations as well as strong US allies like Norway on edge.

And then there is no doubt that the Russians sought to influence the most recent election, using the same strategy that has worked so well in E. Europe, Ukraine/Crimea. Those are real issues. If Trump ran on a platform of trying to smooth over those differences no one would fault him for it. Again, this is something even Obama tried. But when your administration in waiting is lying about contact you've had with the Russians; you're unwilling to disclose information to rebut allegations that you're financially leveraged with these people; you take no steps to punish a country that involved itself in our elections; defend Putin at every opportunity (even to the point of arguing a moral equivalency between the US/Russia), etc etc - you can't help but assume there is more to the story.

Secondly, if the media wasn't and hadn't been so blatantly and openly biased about literally EVERYTHING, from how Trump got one more scoop of ice cream than his aides to the fact that he eats fried chicken with a knife and fork and is thus unfit to be President (both which are real news stories run by CNN) the media wouldn't be so distrusted. The media gets blamed for a lot because it is an objective fact that the media will flat out lie at the drop of a hat if and when it fits their political objectives. Combine that with the outright shadyness and dishonesty of the outgoing adminstration and you have the current political situation. It is yet again an objetive fact that the Obama Administration applied for at least two FISA warrants to listen in on Trump and his assoicates. They say they didn't get them, yet also seem to have information on things that Trump was talking about. They say that was incidental survelliance but won't say where it came from. Think about that for a second. They're with holding information. From the President. On whether or not they're spying on him.

Thirdly, name one of these "incontrovertible facts" about various members of the administration and thier talks with Russia. Name one that is a stone cold fact. Hell, even name one about Flynn. You can't. Because their aren't any. That's the truth of the matter. This has been going on for months and not one single cold hard, rock solid fact has ever been put on paper. Don't you think that's a little suspicious?

Again with the complaining! Every president/candidate is subjected to that silly shyt. They made a big fuss over John Kerry wanting swiss cheese on his philly cheesesteak; they got on Obama for putting mustard on his cheeseburger; or wanting an arugula salad etc etc. This is what I mean - Trump has a sense of self pity that is absolutely monumental considering he's been in the public eye for all of his life.

With respect to the FISA warrants - that is what they are used for! If Hillary won the election and it turned out her campaign had been in contact with Chinese nationals known to be intelligence agents etc, would you not want the NSA/CIA etc to be able to monitor what's being said?? They applied for a FISA warrant and the first one was denied, they re-applied (they were more specific on their focus) and it was granted. If Trump is caught on a wiretap, it's only because he's communicating with a foreign national that the US Govt has decided to surveil. Again, this is how the FISA court operates no matter who is president. If I were you I would be more concerned with asking why it is that the president and so many of his top officials have such a chummy relationship with these people.

And finally the President is not above the law. If there is an investigation and he is involved, he's not entitled to be informed if it is going to compromise the investigation.

 

[lfd0311]

You make a fair point, and one that even the Obama administration pursued (the "reset"). No one in their right minds, except for a few Cold Warriors WANTS to have a contentious relationship with the Russians. But there's no avoiding that on some very key issues, the US and Russia just do not see eye to eye. Expansion of NATO; Russian designs on becoming a bigger player in the Middle East; Ukraine/Crimea; more expansionist rhetoric that has Baltic nations as well as strong US allies like Norway on edge.

And then there is no doubt that the Russians sought to influence the most recent election, using the same strategy that has worked so well in E. Europe, Ukraine/Crimea. Those are real issues. If Trump ran on a platform of trying to smooth over those differences no one would fault him for it. Again, this is something even Obama tried. But when your administration in waiting is lying about contact you've had with the Russians; you're unwilling to disclose information to rebut allegations that you're financially leveraged with these people; you take no steps to punish a country that involved itself in our elections; defend Putin at every opportunity (even to the point of arguing a moral equivalency between the US/Russia), etc etc - you can't help but assume there is more to the story.

The Obama administration did seem to want a contentious relationship with Russia. I've taken a lot of heat for this statement, but I have and will continue to stand by it. If our government actually cared about the things we claim to care about, Secularism, human decency, etc. We would have supported the Assad regime from the outset of the rebellion in Syria. Instead we've actively opposed it and attempted to topple the regime. And why? Because they're allied with Russia and because Obama is an ideologue, and his administration was packed with them and dedicated to conflict with Russia because of their openly non Western stance on most social issues. That's an absurd Foreign Policy poisiton for a President to have. The entire Syrian Conflict has been designed by us as an attempt to mess with Russia's economy by depriving them of an ally in the ME.

Again with the complaining! Every president/candidate is subjected to that silly shyt. They made a big fuss over John Kerry wanting swiss cheese on his philly cheesesteak; they got on Obama for putting mustard on his cheeseburger; or wanting an arugula salad etc etc. This is what I mean - Trump has a sense of self pity that is absolutely monumental considering he's been in the public eye for all of his life.

With respect to the FISA warrants - that is what they are used for! If Hillary won the election and it turned out her campaign had been in contact with Chinese nationals known to be intelligence agents etc, would you not want the NSA/CIA etc to be able to monitor what's being said?? They applied for a FISA warrant and the first one was denied, they re-applied (they were more specific on their focus) and it was granted. If Trump is caught on a wiretap, it's only because he's communicating with a foreign national that the US Govt has decided to surveil. Again, this is how the FISA court operates no matter who is president. If I were you I would be more concerned with asking why it is that the president and so many of his top officials have such a chummy relationship with these people.

And finally the President is not above the law. If there is an investigation and he is involved, he's not entitled to be informed if it is going to compromise the investigation.

Did the media try to potray Obama putting Mustard on his burger as stone cold proof that he was a dictator and had the qualities of a dicator? No, they didn't.

As for the FISA warrants, you'r completely missing the point. A sitting US President allowed FISA warrants to be used against the presumptive Presidential Candidate of the opposing party for reasons that still as of right now haven't been explained. He was actually using American intelligence assets to spy on his political opponents. Stop and think about that for a second. And don't try to tell me Obama didn't know that was going on. Approval of something of that magnitiude would have had to come from the highest reaches of our Government.

As for Hillary, that's a silly premise. Do you know what we're talking about? We're talking about Sergi Kislyak. He's the Russian Ambassador to the US. That dude is apparently a "well known Russian spymaster". The Russian Ambassador to the US. Does that sound a little bit like a media invention to you? The US Government HAS to deal with the Russian Ambassador. That's how Government's operate. He's been the Ambassador for 9 years and was appointed by the previous President, when did he become this "Spymaster"?

http://newmediacentral.net/russian-ambassador-sergey-kislyak-visited-barack-obama-22-times/

The Gentleman at the near end of the couch with his legs crossed is Sergi Kislyak. He's the "spymaster" that everyone is losing their minds about being allowed into the Oval Office by Trump, seen here in the Oval Office with Barak Obama. Where was the outrage then? Was he not a "known spymaster" then? Again, THIS IS WHY NOBODY BELIEVES THE MEDIA. If you're a "known spymaster" you aren't a very good spy, much less a "spymaster". Literally every dignitary from a foreign power is an "intelligence asset". Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama are classifed as American Intelligence Assets in Russia and China. That's how it works.