Bret Hart was in the wrong during the screwjob

Discussion in 'Pro Wrestling Discussion' started by XThe GreatestX, Jul 16, 2017 at 1:04 AM.

  1. XThe GreatestX Brown Belt

    XThe GreatestX
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    I have always believed this. End of the day, its not real. Don't care how much you dislike the guy you are working with, you do business. Especially being the champion going to the competitor who is kicking the WWF's ass at the time. Vince made the right call imo.

    Just my two cents. Thoughts?
     
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  2. Good Ole Stannis's BBQ Purple Belt

    Good Ole Stannis's BBQ
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    Bret screwed Bret. Still not 100% convinced it wasn't a work.
     
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  3. XThe GreatestX Brown Belt

    XThe GreatestX
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    eh. I dont think it was. If anything Bret got hotter because of the incident. No way Vince helps a guy going to WCW, when WCW literally had the WWF on the ropes at the time.

    I am not sure people realize how much the WWF was in trouble in 97. Vince was even talking about downsizing back to a northeast territory again
     
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  4. Good Ole Stannis's BBQ Purple Belt

    Good Ole Stannis's BBQ
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    If it makes him the biggest heel in wrestling at the same time why not? He knew Bret wouldn't reach his full potential in the viper's nest of top guys that was wcw while he could have a much more controllable roster of up and comers that he could give the rub to. They still fucked him up spectacularly though probably beyond Vince's wildest dreams.
     
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  5. XThe GreatestX Brown Belt

    XThe GreatestX
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    Were you watching back than? Vince legitimately thought he was going to be the babyface in the fans eyes. He tried for at least 3 weeks including the time honored tradition interview to be the babyface.

    People around back than talk about how Vince wanted everything completely swept under the rug and forgotten about but every time he appeared to do commentary he got the shit booed out of him. So he went with it.
     
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  6. Good Ole Stannis's BBQ Purple Belt

    Good Ole Stannis's BBQ
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    Yes I've always watched with my older brother but I was a bit young to remember everything clearly until about 98. Doesn't mean I can't go back and watch. Sounds like it was all part of his plan to me. He had a way better finger on the pulse back then.
     
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  7. Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

    Bluesbreaker
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    No argument from me, TS. Bret has often seemed like a poor sport to me.
     
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  8. GSPSAKU Purple Belt

    GSPSAKU
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    Honestly, the fact that Shawn stated he would not job to Bret after Bret told Shawn he would be willing to job to Shawn, I completely understand. Name one wrestler who would be willing to job to a wrestler who openly stated he would never be willing to do the same? Any normal person, in Bret's shoes, would do the same. Imagine telling a coworker you dislike that you don't mind helping them out if they need it and then they tell you, "Well, thank you but don't expect me to do the same for you". No way any of us would be willing to help that coworker out especially if our contract stated we didn't have to

    But more importantly, Bret let Vince out of a 20 year contract and the new contract they signed stated that in the final 30 days of Bret's time with the WWF, Bret had reasonable creative control meaning he and the WWF had to mutually agree on all terms concerning angles, matches, and finishes.

    Lastly, people talk about what's right and what's wrong. If Bret was in the wrong, which he wasn't since it was written into his contract, WHY WAS IT THAT THE ENTIRE LOCKERROOM SIDED WITH BRET? WHY DID UNDERTAKER TAKE BRET'S SIDE AND GO TO VINCE'S ROOM TELLING VINCE HE HAD TO GO AND APOLOGIZE TO BRET?
     
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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017 at 8:30 AM
  9. The Higher Power "IT'S ME, AUSTIN!!!"

    The Higher Power
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    The only ones in the wrong concerning the Workjob are people who still think it was real.
     
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  10. GSPSAKU Purple Belt

    GSPSAKU
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    Yea, I just don't buy Bret as a superb, world class actor. That's the only thing that keeps me from thinking it wasn't a work. The amount of bitterness Bret has shown over the past 20 years, if that turns out to be a work, really makes him the greatest actor wrestling has ever seen
     
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  11. sleepwalk pork roll, egg and cheese belt

    sleepwalk
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    Whereas dictating that he not lose the title in Canada (or to Shawn or in a match or whatever his deal was) was pretty unheard of and not the way things got done back then, Bret did have some creative control in that whopper contract of his (which had been overrun by Vince up until that point anyways.)

    I think, as zero hour came to a close, Bret saw himself losing clean to Shawn at his assholiest in Canada where he was cheered when he was being booed in the states after years as a babyface and it obviously ate at him.

    I also think that Vince, while getting his dick kicked in by Turner & Co, saw his top Canadian draw (and probably top overseas draw and a big time US name draw,) with days left on his contract and getting cold feet and/or uppity about doing the job to the company's #1(a) star and suddenly asking to end a PPV in a schmozz and hand over the title in a ceremony without losing it. And he was understandably freaked about it.

    I look at it like this: Was Jeff Jarrett wrong to milk a six figure payday out of a title loss to a woman before heading into a cutthroat atmosphere in WCW? Dude did what he had to do and, maybe, then some. So did Bret. So did Vince.
     
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  12. XThe GreatestX Brown Belt

    XThe GreatestX
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    eh. The locker room sided with Bret at first sure. But over time most of them came around to Vince's way of thinking.

    Drop the belt man. Your leaving. They asked Bret to drop it the night before and during the week leading up to the ppv and he said no because it would have hurt his status in Canada to go into the ppv having dropped it. Imagine for a second if someone came up to Stu Hart and said I am not dropping the belt tonight because I don't like this city ( Hypo is in Stampede Wrestling say 1972)

    Stu would have choked them out right there. And Bret being his son and old school HAD to know what he was doing was wrong.

    I mean seriously HE WANTED TO HAND THE BELT OVER ON RAW THAN GO TO WCW..........Just imagine for a second how that would have looked...
     
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  13. XThe GreatestX Brown Belt

    XThe GreatestX
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    I don't understand this......why do people think it was a work...

    It literally makes no sense if it was a work. No one benefited from it except Vince and even he did not mean to benefit from it. It just kinda fell in his lap. And even than he was so stubborn he tried to fight it for almost a month before finally going with it.
     
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  14. GSPSAKU Purple Belt

    GSPSAKU
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    Most wrestlers have not sided with Vince but so much of it has to due with Vince being Vince and being the King of wrestling as well as buying the WWE narrative.

    Wait, Bret wanted to hand the belt over? He went over several scenarios which included dropping the belt to Undertaker, Mick Foley, Steve Austin or even Ken Shamrock. So many people who have bought into the WWE's narrative of saying Bret Hart didn't want to lose in Canada or as you mentioned, he wanted to hand the belt over on RAW. Even JR mentions Bret being willing to drop the belt in Detroit before SS. Bret was not willing to lose to Shawn unless Shawn was willing to lose to Bret first, going back to my initial post where Shawn admitted on video that he did tell Bret he was never going to lose to Bret even if Bret lost to Shawn.
     
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  15. King Ghidorah Brown Belt

    King Ghidorah
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    Not sure I agree that dictating who you lost to was unheard of back then. Hogan was infamous for doing that during his WWF run and really hurt Perfect, Rude, Jake, Bret, and Macho by.refusing to job to them. Look at the whole WM 9 debacle. Was it the norm? no, but was it unheard of? nope.


    Hitman obviously hated HBK, and HBK saying he would never drop the title to Bret, probably didn't help matters. While Bret wasn't in the right, I wouldn't say he was in the wrong either. He did say he would drop the belt to HBK the next night on RAW, but Vince wouldn't budge, and I think December 1995 is the reason why. I really believe Vince would have compromised with Bret if the Alundra Blayze/Madusa incident never happened. Vince was paranoid at that point, and didn't want to viewers to see his Winged Eagle belt disposed of on live TV. I get why Vince did what he did, at the end of the day he made a business decision, and in hindsight, it was the best decision he made. As someone else mentioned, that night was the catalyst for the Mr. McMahon character.
     
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  16. GSPSAKU Purple Belt

    GSPSAKU
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    In regards to the dropping the belt on Raw without losing, that WAS ONE of the ideas and Shawn said he and Hunter hatched the plan after hearing that one of Bret's ideas was to relinquish the belt on Raw. Of course Bret's other ideas were to lose to 'Taker, Mankind, a rising Steve Austin or even Ken Shamrock. Bret said he'd lose to Shawn on Raw as long as Shawn would do the favor and lose to Bret first at Survivor Series.

    Anyhow, back to Shawn and Hunter saying they started hatching plans as soon as they heard Bret mention the idea of relinquishing the title on RAW without a match and Jim Ross's response right to Shawn's face was, and I quote:

    "That, that wasn't novel. You handed the belt over three times," JR stated

    "Hmm mmm," responded Shawn

    "Three titles. All he (Bret) was looking to do, sounds to me, was to relinquish the title" JR stated

    "Umm, umm, you can talk to Hunter and I didn't even say much..." Shawn said which was Shawn deflecting everything.

    Again, one of the many scenarios thrown out there
    I agree with all you said here except the line in bold. The WWF and WCW were in a lawsuit at the time over WCW throwing the belt in the trash. Bischoff has come out and stated that was never even a thought, he had never even discussed that with Bret and he wouldn't have even thought about it because they were still in a heated lawsuit over the Madusa/belt thing.

    Vince and his legal team knew this but this part of that false narrative that Vince and the WWF leaked out in the late 90s, the possibility of Bret showing up on WCW tv with the belt.

    Honestly, without the Montreal Screwjob though, I don't think the WWF would've won the Monday Night Wars. Vince honestly thought he'd come out as the hero after Montreal, after Bret "refused" to lose on the way out and punched Bret. The fans turned on Vince and Vince went with it, coming out as the owner of the company and the evil McMahon character was born
     
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  17. lakersfan45 That's sardo! No mr, accent on the do!

    lakersfan45
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    It was such a convoluted situation. Having Bret lose to Shawn in Canada was really a big slap in the face anyway u look at it considering all the events that lead to it. It was just a bizzare storm of circumstances.
     
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  18. The Higher Power "IT'S ME, AUSTIN!!!"

    The Higher Power
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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. The Higher Power "IT'S ME, AUSTIN!!!"

    The Higher Power
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    Everyone benefited from it.
    But yeah, Vince is the type of guy to let someone legit go off script and break his jaw and get away with it. Yep, that makes complete sense. :rolleyes:
     
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  20. lakersfan45 That's sardo! No mr, accent on the do!

    lakersfan45
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    It wasn't a work. Almost caused a locker room mutiny. That's @The Higher Power gimmick. Owen was set up, screw job was real ect.
     
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