Bret Hart was in the wrong during the screwjob

The Higher Power said:
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Lol, please come up with something more substantial. You really think Bret is that great of an actor? SMH
 
The Higher Power said:
Everyone benefited from it.
But yeah, Vince is the type of guy to let someone legit go off script and break his jaw and get away with it. Yep, that makes complete sense. :rolleyes:
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Maybe you forgot that was never supposed to happen. Vince locked himself in his room with Shane and his stooges. It wasn't until Undertaker went in there and pounded on the door and told Vince he, and the boys, wanted Vince to go and apologize to Bret that Vince went to see Bret.
 
Don't mess with the booker.
 
If it was a work, it would've come out by now.

As far as who was at fault, Vince was mostly at fault:

1. Don't put the strap on a guy you know is leaving.
2. Don't ask a guy who has creative control to job, in his homeland, to a guy you know he has legit beef with.
3. Don't expect there not to be heat with the locker room, when you reneg on your word, with one of the boys.

Shawn was probably the last guy in the locker room to deserve the strap at that point, but for some reason, Vince has always had a hardon for him.

In spite of tucking it up at every turn, Vince basically won the lottery with that angle, and created one of the best heels in wrestling history. Also helps that WCW was so rife with cronyism, that the booking was utter shite. They could've booked Bret to job to Hogan right off the bat, and made millions, but nope; you wait a month, and then book him against 10yr past-prime Flair. It's almost as if WCW was allergic to money from '98 on.
 
I still think the idea was for Bret to go to WCW for a few years, make his millions then come back to give the company a shot in the arm as a huge payoff to the screw job angle. Bret's injury, Owen's death and the rise of the Rock as a superstar all made the plan impossible and unnecessary.
 
GSPSAKU said:
Maybe you forgot that was never supposed to happen. Vince locked himself in his room with Shane and his stooges. It wasn't until Undertaker went in there and pounded on the door and told Vince he, and the boys, wanted Vince to go and apologize to Bret that Vince went to see Bret.
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And yet even @Pliny Pete no longer believes it was a shoot.
Let me guess, you also believe that Kane and Taker are brothers and the former was burned alive by the latter when they were kids? ;)
 
GSPSAKU said:
WHY WAS IT THAT THE ENTIRE LOCKERROOM SIDED WITH BRET? WHY DID UNDERTAKER TAKE BRET'S SIDE AND GO TO VINCE'S ROOM TELLING VINCE HE HAD TO GO AND APOLOGIZE TO BRET?
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That's not really true. Fans have kind of fed that myth into bigger than it was. Mick Foley was like the only guy who didn't go to work the next day. Most of the roster was sick of Bret and Shawn bickering like little girls and just wanted to get on with their own job and not step on any egg shells. Some were probably even happy to take the opportunity to take his spot. See 9.23-10.30

Austin talks a lot more positively about Bret these days since the comments would later come back to bite him in 2002 when he became difficult to deal with. Also as regards the Undertaker Prichard said he was seen in the office waiting for Vince and it appeared he might have been guarding the place and been in on it which is different than that beating the door down account. Him being the ultimate Vince guy wouldn't surprise me at all if he took his side over his friend who is forcing his boss's hand. The undertaker champion of the boys image must continue though so who knows. Even if he did he was probably the only guy on the roster at the time in the position to speak up to Vince about it without getting canned.
 
drstrangelov said:
I still think the idea was for Bret to go to WCW for a few years, make his millions then come back to give the company a shot in the arm as a huge payoff to the screw job angle. Bret's injury, Owen's death and the rise of the Rock as a superstar all made the plan impossible and unnecessary.
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Brilliant idea, if true. It still doesn't explain, though, why none of the involved parties would've exposed it as a work. Too many parties would've known about it(either at the time, or eventually). Hebner, Bret's ex, Shawn, etc...somebody would've said something by now. Unless Vince, Bret, and Patterson were truly the only ones who knew what was going down.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if Undertaker took offence to the situation. He and Bret were like kindred spirits - the biggest marks for themselves.
 
gspieler said:
Brilliant idea, if true. It still doesn't explain, though, why none of the involved parties would've exposed it as a work. Too many parties would've known about it(either at the time, or eventually). Hebner, Bret's ex, Shawn, etc...somebody would've said something by now. Unless Vince, Bret, and Patterson were truly the only ones who knew what was going down.
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Keep it close, provide a payoff later on
 
I've never agreed with what vince did,but i can fully understand why he did it. plus it gave him solid gold to work with for a long time after.
 
neverwas said:
I've never agreed with what vince did,but i can fully understand why he did it. plus it gave him solid gold to work with for a long time after.
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The gold was accidental and though it gave us two years of McMahon/Austin gold it also gave us a two decades of utter shit with heel authority bookers (WCW/WWE/TNA/Indy) destroying the entire heel wrestler/face authority dynamic that worked for a century. That shit gave us Russo with a belt, McMahon invasion, Steph/HHH authority, Bryan being put down and directly (along with other causes) leads to Reigns being shitted on by fans because they're told the company are the bad guys.
 
GSPSAKU said:
In regards to the dropping the belt on Raw without losing, that WAS ONE of the ideas and Shawn said he and Hunter hatched the plan after hearing that one of Bret's ideas was to relinquish the belt on Raw. Of course Bret's other ideas were to lose to 'Taker, Mankind, a rising Steve Austin or even Ken Shamrock. Bret said he'd lose to Shawn on Raw as long as Shawn would do the favor and lose to Bret first at Survivor Series.

Anyhow, back to Shawn and Hunter saying they started hatching plans as soon as they heard Bret mention the idea of relinquishing the title on RAW without a match and Jim Ross's response right to Shawn's face was, and I quote:

"That, that wasn't novel. You handed the belt over three times," JR stated

"Hmm mmm," responded Shawn

"Three titles. All he (Bret) was looking to do, sounds to me, was to relinquish the title" JR stated

"Umm, umm, you can talk to Hunter and I didn't even say much..." Shawn said which was Shawn deflecting everything.

Again, one of the many scenarios thrown out there


I agree with all you said here except the line in bold. The WWF and WCW were in a lawsuit at the time over WCW throwing the belt in the trash. Bischoff has come out and stated that was never even a thought, he had never even discussed that with Bret and he wouldn't have even thought about it because they were still in a heated lawsuit over the Madusa/belt thing.

Vince and his legal team knew this but this part of that false narrative that Vince and the WWF leaked out in the late 90s, the possibility of Bret showing up on WCW tv with the belt.

Honestly, without the Montreal Screwjob though, I don't think the WWF would've won the Monday Night Wars. Vince honestly thought he'd come out as the hero after Montreal, after Bret "refused" to lose on the way out and punched Bret. The fans turned on Vince and Vince went with it, coming out as the owner of the company and the evil McMahon character was born
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Listening to Tony Schiavone / Cornette / wrestlers Id think that the WCW was dead the moment Turner bought it and put dudes with zero wrestling knowledge/ability/appreciation in charge. Bischoff had a good idea or five but he was in an organization that would have killed WCW by itself, no matter what. Costs/NWO/politics bullshit only made the demise faster. At worst Vince would have gone into survival mode for a while, WCW was doomed to die.
 
WCW never ever had the organization that WWE did, even before Turner bought it it was a mom and pops org.
 
Bret was Vince's most loyal guy, he turned down a deal that was more than double WWE's offer to resign with Vince (for 20 years to guarantee he could never go to WCW) less than a year before. Unlike most contracts at that time it didn't have the extreme guarantees offered to Nash or Hogan, its only creative control clause took effect in the last 30 days (of Bret's entire career) so he could have the last run that was proper.

It wasn't Hart's fault he was the champion, that Vince listened to Michaels to get rid of Bret (he paid Tyson two months later more than Bret's entire contract), and that he chose to screw Bret creatively and break his agreement. Vince had a legal obligation made in good faith that he simply bitched out on because he can't use a calendar.
 
Bret screwed Bret,
 
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