Boxing Mitt Work

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by shincheckin, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. aerius

    aerius Brown Belt

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    Did you really think you'd get away with this dishonest bullshit?

    Just a random frame huh? Sure buddy. You think the rest of us didn't watch the video?
    It takes a special kind of dishonesty to write up a bunch of BS based on a frame you cherry picked from the video.
     
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  2. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    Give me a break with your cherrypicking you simpleton, pause at any moment and check for these 3 things when the guy is on the offense and ask yourself: Are these good things or bad things. Nothing advanced to see here but what does it matter, the guy is having a good time that is what is most important as fight hobbyists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  4. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    At the moment I read /view a little up about the old school boxers from early 20th century to the 50s and oh my was I wrong that they were primitive in their boxing skills. Completely changed my view. But why I write this is that many of the greats were also formidable to excellent wrestlers and talked about that wrestling helped them for their boxing a lot despite the different approach in stances...etc.

    Dont judge a book by its covers. Its imo a good example how out of the box thinking / movement can help and build connections not thought about before.
     
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  5. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    Here fuckers learn some kickboxing:

    1) what will happen if the trainer sticks his arm out ? He will hit him on the chin. Is this a GOOD or a BAD thing ?
    2) His weight distribution is clearly on his front leg and his feet are WAY more than shoulder width apart. Try to stand in this stance and try to kick or knee effectively. YOU CANT.
    3) He is not looking at his opponent but at the pad. If you are in a fight, where do you want to look: at your opponent or somewhere else ?

    [​IMG]

    Now this is just a random frame, but you can go to any frame and see these things.
     
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  6. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    Youg guys are a bunch of advanced muay thai jokes
     
  7. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    The old school dutch style from the 80s is where its at guys not muay thai. The stable of fighters from founders Jan Plas, Peter van der Hemel and others walked through every standup fighter on the planet. Look at Andre Brilleman walking through Howard Jackson, undefeated world champion at the time and couldn't get any opponent for 2 years.

     
  8. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    Not gonna lie, I might have a more conventional boxing guard compared to Jack Dempsey by modern standards, but if that guy were alive and kicking to give me advice I'd sure as hell listen, the results don't lie. They knew what they were doing they just had a different way of getting about it.
     
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  9. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    lmao this is nuts to see yourself being analyzed with an actual picture of yourself on sherdog by some random person.

    Anyways ill make a fair response: My coaches left hand just received my hook, meaning his left hand, had already been hit. It was a Hook/Cross or 3/2 como. Its not as if he was just holding for a R hand, and I dropped my hands and went in for a R hand although in the picture it can look that way. That being said, it would be quite difficult for my coach to jab me with his left hand in-between a fast beat 3/2 combo.


    This leads into another topic I had been meaning to bring up, and regarding people nitpicking over stance and technique.....yes its great to have those things, but its not a perfect science, anything you do leaves you open somewhere else, you cant have both hands up and remain in your perfect stance the entire time. There will be times when your hands may need to be moved/dropped for various reasons such as balance for example.

    ANALOGY: An analogy can be compared to a surfer, we all know the "surfer stance" however watch a surfer and you will see their hands in various positions. But oh no! hes not in perfect surfing stance 24/7!!!!

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Lets now see some comparisons in combat sports:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    I hope that makes sense to you guys. Dropping our hands is something we dont want to do. We train to keep our hands up to try to eliminate it, however they cannot be in that "perfect" position throughout an entire fight.



    PS: This is definitely spacetime guys.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  10. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    The classic dutch fighters are better than American fighters, but I'm not as fond of them from a technical standard compared to the top muay thai fighters. I think you lose something in not having to worry about elbows or extended clinching, and I'm not in love with the stereotypically dutch school of thought as boxing being the art of throwing combinations as opposed to boxing itself. I think the Thai's do better in that regard.

    I think the old school dutch style is better than what we have now, but I don't think that it's as all round as strong as what you'd see from guys like Samart, Sagat, Somrak, probably someone else who's name starts with S. Even right now I think fighters like Youssef Boughanem have a very effective all round style for working all levels of the body while keeping the base from getting too wide and keeping tight defence.

    That being said, I am not a huge fan of what the Dutch style has become, I feel like it's lost some of its grace in recent years. That's part of why I've always gravitated to Lucien Carbin's fighters, admittedly I now have personal bias towards him. This interview I did a while ago, Lucien Carbin talks about how he developed his style based on how Jan Plas taught him and based on what he saw in other athletes and fighters to create his unique style: https://muay-thai-guy.com/lucien-carbin.html
     
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  11. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    It's not me. I agree with your post, only to add that stances, postures and guards vary a lot between fighters. There are boxers who have a more Muay Thai esque guard and posture and vice versa. So those slide shows are a bit simplistic.
     
  12. spacetime

    spacetime Black Belt

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    Oh and now you know how it feels to post on Sherdog. Welcome to my world! :)

    I was attacked for the same things.
     
  13. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    didnt really know much about him until recently, had a big kyokushin influence. style I guess. It would cool to learn his style. Maybe I should practice it.

    good stuff



     
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  14. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    its called a shoe shine in boxing.

     
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  15. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    yeah thats exactly it.
     
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  16. bobthebuilder

    bobthebuilder Special Belt

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    This is the best boxing mitt work you've posted imo, I like your hand speed in the long combos especially as you're repeating the same thing. It looks like useful work for your style as well.
     
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  17. thugpoet

    thugpoet Purple Belt

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    some of you guys are dense...

    it's perfectly acceptable to break down your sport to work o individual things.

    Football players work on tackling for example

    or

    Basketball players practicing dribbling

    or

    Boxers tweaking their jabs

    How do you get better at something without focusing on it?
     
  18. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    They do it in Thailand too from what I hear from peeps who've gone there. Kicking coach, clinching coach, even a punching one

    inb4 @ARIZE calls me a blasphemer
     
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  19. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    The guys that first brought kickboxing into Holland had a lot of knowlege about fighting. Each of them knew eachother and everyone of them had their own little blueprint on how fighting had to take place. Therefore 'Lucien Carbin style' has some differences from how Jan Plas thought it and that was again a littble bit different from how Peter van der Hemel taught it etcetera. Not even thinking about how the fighters implemented their own technique from the knowledge they had from the guys above. Therefore you are making too many generalization about a stereotypical dutch school, and it does not resemble very much with what you posted about Valtellini at all. They also had a lot in common in their thoughts about fighting and they had in common that the stable of fighters that they produced were at the top.

    One example of such a common technique is 'stepping through' (doorstappen in Dutch) while punching:



    Look at the third punch of the first combo from the girl where she punches with her right hand, and 'switch stances' at the same time. This can be done while closing distance or adding distance. This is a very powerful move since you can move much faster and still maintain your power if you master this AND keep your feet close together so that kicking is easier. Also old school dutch kickboxing does not have a typical stance, there is no difference between standing southpaw or unorthodox since you got to know both, and while switching you punch (thats whats called the 'doorstap/ or stepping through'). This makes you crazy unpredictable and a fast mover. It opens you up to throw combinations like advanced muay thai guy did, while being able to move, kick and not making your head an easy target by having your stance heavy on the front foot ( thus my example of Brilleman as he does all those things ).

    The confusion of dutch kickboxing that I see a lot come from a misunderstanding between 'philosophy' and 'actual technique'. In case of the latter it is hard to find gym in Holland nowadays that still does these things. As far as philosophy goes these are things like:

    - Attack first
    - 'Boxing being the art of throwing combinations.' as you put it.
    - Finishing with low kicks
    - Keeping the pressure on
    - .... Probably something else that i forgot

    These 'philosophies' are things that you can recognize with the Valtellini guy but its the way how its implemented that is different.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  20. TheMachinegun12

    TheMachinegun12 White Belt

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    In dutch kickboxing, training the way you do without using your legs makes no sense. This is for good reason no matter what most of the keyboard fighters at sherdog are trying to tell you. The reason is that in actual standup fighting you ARE using your legs. Take another good look at the Carbin videos.

    I love how you put a picture of Mayweather and Yodsenklai with a picture of yourself I assume in the same post.

    Anyways this echo chamber mechanism that is taking place in this thread is the reason why previously effective fighting styles get watered down into less effective ones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018

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