Bob (Mueller)'s 13 Russian Burgers: Russia Investigation v.13

[Bobby 3 Sticks]

Illegal but I don't think it goes that far. You're manipulating rubes but they are still acting of their own free will. Can't compare that to am assassination imo.

You definitely cannot compare it to assassinations I agree. But that is certainly an act of war to me. You're interfering with the country's populace to the detriment of that country.

 

[PolishHeadlock]

I hate to say this, but I think a lot of Americans actually disagree with that at this moment. I'm firmly dove > hawk, but even I couldn't imagine us not retaliating in a major way.

But it goes even beyond the perception of the American people.

Imagine China's perception of something like that. I could see them ramping up their activity in the South China sea.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Given it came down to 80,000 votes out of 100M+ cast only answer is "we'll never truly know". Russia certainly believes it was having it's desired impact or they woudn't have did it.

But they didn't just do that. Their are reports the Russians were helping Jill Stein and Bernie as well.

The Russians basically wanted Hillary to lose.

Very dumb people will think that is because Hillary would have been so great for america, and Russians didn't like that. The truth is that Hillary was supported by the oligarch interests that are absolutely hostile to Russia. The truth is there is a reason Kegan and Kissinger supported her.

 

[KnightTemplar]

Yeah but again that was a Russian National.

It's pretty crazy to kill him on British soil but I don't think it's on the same level as killing am American in America which has to be seen as close to am act of war. The US would have to retaliate or lose standing as the military Super Power in the world.

As I said before: few people are as good at committing assassination as the Russians. Western intelligence agencies refer to killing in the line of duty as, "wet work". That term actually dates back to Tsarist Russia, where Russian gangsters called murder, "wet affairs". The term was picked up by the KGB.

If the FSB wants someone dead, they are perfectly capable of killing him and making it look like an accident, suicide or natural causes. It's a bit like the scene from Tomorrow Never Dies,

Bond, "If you shoot me from there, it won't look like suicide".

Dr Kaufman, "I'm a Professor of Forensic Pathology, Mr Bond. I could shoot you from Sttutgart and make it look like suicide"

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

We already know Trump Jr was actively engaging a person he believed to be a high ranking Russian for stolen dirt on a political opponent. Now, the question becomes do these actions add up to a conspiracy against the US. Does the political process count as a lawful government function before votes are cast? That's one of the key questions.

When has the law been used before?
The broad nature of the law means it has been used against a wide range of people.

In 2005, computer hacker Jeanson James Ancheta was indicted under section 371 for using "botnets". He pleaded guilty in 2006 and was sentenced to five years in prison.

Section 371 was also used against Jeff Skilling, the former chief executive of energy firm Enron. He was jailed in 2006 for 24 years, which was reduced on appeal to 14 years.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41807131

I wasn't speaking so much to what he may or may not be guilty of -"If it's what you say, I love it", to my mind, is already tantamount to treasonous behavior- but to what he can ultimately be held to account for.

 

[JosephDredd]

Yeah but again that was a Russian National.

It's pretty crazy to kill him on British soil but I don't think it's on the same level as killing am American in America which has to be seen as close to am act of war. The US would have to retaliate or lose standing as the military Super Power in the world.

Maybe under a different president. Sanctions, anyone?

 

[Fawlty]

But it goes even beyond the perception of the American people.

Imagine China's perception of something like that. I could see them ramping up their activity in the South China sea.

Or opening more fast food joints. Espionage fronts have great prices on lunch specials.

I have no clue how China would react to that kind of bold move by Putin. They've been out of the news recently too.

 

[JosephDredd]

But it goes even beyond the perception of the American people.

Imagine China's perception of something like that. I could see them ramping up their activity in the South China sea.

I think China took their measure of Trump when Xi had to teach him about Korea because he didn't know anything.

Or when Trump tried to send a warship to the Korean peninsula and it was discovered circling the wrong part of the world.

Or when Trump refused to impose sanctions on Russia.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Would Trump have still won the election if Russia did not help him?

It's an interesting question. Given how close the results were and even though he was running against a very flawed candidate, I don't think he wins without the help from Russia.

What say you?

Who dafuq knows. We're all welcome to settle on our opinion. Pretty hard to both separate fact from fiction and then accurately quantify it. I've simply accepted the result and moved on since nobody has shown how the First Amendment doesn't include receiving messages from foreigners. That seems to be most of the complaints.

 

[JSnake]

Mainstream media was oversaturated with Pro-Hillary propaganda; she spent over a billion dollars for her campaign, with support from countries like China, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine... you actually had to make it a point to search for Pro-Trump content.

The whole Russia narrative was conspired simply as a way to deflect/rationalize for a horribly run democratic presidential campaign/candidate; while simultaneously putting a political opponent in the crosshairs.

 

[HatchetHarry]

I disagree. Trump is still President and passing shit legislation, nominating shit judges and potentially shit SCOTUS Justices, giving millions more to billionaires and deporting DACA Dreamers because Putin and Russia helped him win is not something I'm willing to overlook and move on from.

Trump is still not doing a damn thing about it, sitting on sanctions, still waxing poetic about Putin, willing to attack everybody and every thing except Russia and Putin since this indictment was revealed. Nothing has been done to prevent this from happening in 2018 elections even.

Triggered

 

[PolishHeadlock]

As I said before: few people are as good at committing assassination as the Russians. Western intelligence agencies refer to killing in the line of duty as, "wet work". That term actually dates back to Tsarist Russia, where Russian gangsters called murder, "wet affairs". The term was picked up by the KGB.

If the FSB wants someone dead, they are perfectly capable of killing him and making it look like an accident, suicide or natural causes. It's a bit like the scene from Tomorrow Never Dies,

Bond, "If you shoot me from there, it won't look like suicide".

Dr Kaufman, "I'm a Professor of Forensic Pathology, Mr Bond. I could shoot you from Sttutgart and make it look like suicide"

So you think they've assisinated foreign citizens but made it look like accidents/suicides?

 

[PolishHeadlock]

Maybe under a different president. Sanctions, anyone?

If we get to the point where Manfort is being assisnated Trump might not be in charge

 

[IGIT]

Hola IGIT, the pleasure is mine.

One would think the Russian help made at least a 1% difference which already is enough to account for the victory.

hi ho HomeCheese,

the Russian meddling did not help Mrs. Clinton, for sure. to what degree it hurt her in some of the key states she ended up losing is anybody's guess (a few fractions of a percentage more in NY State or California, for example, wouldn't have helped her much at all).

i've found the skepticism from most Trump supporters about this topic very bizarre, since i'm probably a bit older than most of the posters here. from the red baiting of Nixon, to the sturm and drang of the Reagan military ramp up to face down the dastardly commies, i've always seen the folks from the GOP as ultimate soviet/russiaphobes. and now?

now everything is AOK. lol.

- IGIT

 

[curryjunkie]

im inclined to think it was a perfect storm of 8 years of scaremongering from right wing media, russia muddying the waters, and clinton being a shit candidate.
plus the biggest effect i think was dems staying home because they saw a biased primary and media that ignored bernie, and they didnt want clinton to win unfairly.
trump on the other hand was in the news consantly, it became the most popular reality show on earth.
until you take big money out of the political process for both parties, there aint no such thing as free and fair elections.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

I think Trump would’ve lost to most anyone other than hilldawg or commie sanders. Unfortunately for the Dems, that’s who they trotted out there.

 

[ShoelessRye]

But they didn't just do that. Their are reports the Russians were helping Jill Stein and Bernie as well.

The Russians basically wanted Hillary to lose.

Very dumb people will think that is because Hillary would have been so great for america, and Russians didn't like that. The truth is that Hillary was supported by the oligarch interests that are absolutely hostile to Russia. The truth is there is a reason Kegan and Kissinger supported her.

Helping Stein and keeping the Bernie issues during the GE was all about helping Trump. For Hillary to lose, Trump would win. If you believe Trump had no collusion or arrangement with Russia, the fact they aided him winning should still be cause of great concern as American democracy has been successfully attacked and the sovereignty of it's elections destroyed. He should be front and center out condemning that interference, rejecting it wholly, calling congressional leaders to come up with a "protect elections" moonshot that needs to be in place for November mid-terms. Instead he's mocking the FBI and blaming them for the deaths of 18 in the Florida shooting, blaming Dems and the media. He hasn't said one cross word about Russia in all of this.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Helping Stein and keeping the Bernie issues during the GE was all about helping Trump. For Hillary to lose, Trump would win. If you believe Trump had no collusion or arrangement with Russia, the fact they aided him winning should still be cause of great concern as American democracy has been successfully attacked and the sovereignty of it's elections destroyed. He should be front and center out condemning that interference, rejecting it wholly, calling congressional leaders to come up with a "protect elections" moonshot that needs to be in place for November mid-terms. Instead he's mocking the FBI and blaming them for the deaths of 18 in the Florida shooting, blaming Dems and the media. He hasn't said one cross word about Russia in all of this.

You keep making this about trump, when the evidence and facts show they were anti-hillary.

 

[WalkenWouldOwn]

There are people out there, and on this board who think Clinton is actually a murdering satanist pedophile.


So who knows

 

[OverCoronavirus Pressure]

I think basic psychology explains Donny Moscow's loss of composure here.
Men with power hate a situation where power is taken from them or where they have little agency.