BJJ Veterans: do some people just never get any good ?

[Evenflow80]

My 6th degree bb professor swears on the mantra that in his 30 years of teaching BJJ, consistency and training overcomes any talent. He swears he has never seen a person, no matter age , size , gender or athleticism NOT become good at bjj if he or she trains consistently (i.e at least 3 times a week for years).

However just after he said that speech I saw a new blue belt get chocked out by a brand new 2 months white belt in about 3 minutes. The bb is a bit older and not in great shape, but he trains about 2 or 3 times a week for about 2 years now.

Is what my professor says true? He is very experienced and has been teaching for 30 years... or is it just a marketing ploy ?

Mainly interested in responses from experienced bjj guys

 

[lts5025]

A brand new blue belt getting their ass handed to them by a white belt isn't unheard of, nor is it a big deal.

2 years of part-time training is not enough time to overcome a large gap in youth, fitness and strength.

 

[zeli_papa]

The word "good" has different meaning for everyone , I believe pretty much everyone can get to a decent (for them ) level, people have different training goals and I don't think that comparing older recreational blue belt to some you young, fit, big white belt is fair.

Bjj is not some magic formula , it's a great martial art and fantastic equalizer that gives smaller people chance to survive and beat bigger , stronger guy but I wouldn't overlook the attributes like strength , size etc that really play major part on every level of Bjj.

Obviously some people are more talented than others and that's just a matter of fact in any area of life. For those people it naturally comes easier however hard work can (at least to some extent) overcome a lack of talent.
On a funny note I remember that I tapped a decent blue belt in my first ever class by using the anaconda choke I saw on yt. It was a combination of me having a big size and strength advantage and him not taking me seriously enough.

 

[SMYD]

Good as getting better or in relative to others? Both are fundamentally different.

 

[EndlessCritic]

I've been a blue belt now for about 7 years, and have trained inconsistently in that time. I consider myself an average blue belt.

There is a white belt I train with at an open mat who says he has been training for only 8 months, and he taps me more than any of the purples.

 

[Dogstarman]

My 6th degree bb professor swears on the mantra that in his 30 years of teaching BJJ, consistency and training overcomes any talent. He swears he has never seen a person, no matter age , size , gender or athleticism NOT become good at bjj if he or she trains consistently (i.e at least 3 times a week for years).

However just after he said that speech I saw a new blue belt get chocked out by a brand new 2 months white belt in about 3 minutes. The bb is a bit older and not in great shape, but he trains about 2 or 3 times a week for about 2 years now.

Is what my professor says true? He is very experienced and has been teaching for 30 years... or is it just a marketing ploy ?

Mainly interested in responses from experienced bjj guys

Everyone can get good relative to their physical and mental attributes. Some people just aren't athletically inclined but they can become better and tougher as they keep training. I know a smaller black belt that can get over muscled by young athletic guys and sometimes it looks like he might be losing, then he is on your back choking you.

Also, a blue belt getting submitted by a white belt isn't that big a deal. Especially if it's an older guy against a younger more athletic guy.

 

[winterbike]

I've seen a few people not improve at all, or improve so slowly it was barely noticeable. The common factors seemed to be low cognitive abilities and lack of self-awareness. They'll do the exact same moves that never work over and over for months, fail to learn anything new, and fail to realize it.

One guy just pulled rubber guard over and over and would stall there. Every single roll. For 3 years.

Now that I'm thinking about it, scratch what I said about cognitive abilities. We had one fat neckbeard who always smelled bad (weird mix of BO and vomit) and wouldn't talk come for a few months. The girls avoided rolling with him because they were creeped out. He learned very slowly, and had lots of trouble replicating the technique of the day, no matter how basic it was. Since we also had an autistic kid dropping by once a week, I figured the big smelly guy was also mentally disabled. Turns out that wasn't the case, since he was... an internist at the local hospital (think House). His deal was severe social anxiety on top of a (probable) pill addiction. At some point he got invited to watch a UFC with the guys from the gym, and he was so high he choked on his steak, fished the chewed meat out of his mouth with a fork, and then proceeded to eat all of it in the next half-hour. Interesting character for sure.

 

[2008]

Everyone gets better based on their ability and potential. You can't compare apples and oranges.

I wouldn't compare the 35 yr-old former couch potato to the 19 yr-old ex high school/22 yr-old post college athlete. Their abilities and conditioning will most likely be vastly different.

If someone never got better it's either because of fitness issue or very inconsistent training.

 

[HangNail]

We had one fat neckbeard who always smelled bad (weird mix of BO and vomit) and wouldn't talk come for a few months. The girls avoided rolling with him because they were creeped out.

You could have just said "typical poster on Sherdog" and we would have gotten the gist

 

[rmongler]

My 6th degree bb professor swears on the mantra that in his 30 years of teaching BJJ, consistency and training overcomes any talent.

Hard work and dedication is a talent few are blessed to be born with.

 

[jack36767]

You know, I could give personal examples, things I've seen or people I've coached. but the point is show up and remember

"comparison is the thief of joy"

Theodore Roosevelt
​

You've already said you have trained less than a year, no experience with anything close to high level athletics but are making flawed judgments. How on earth do you know if that blue belt has gotten better or not? where he began, how much worse it would have been for him if it had been 6 months ago. And so on and so forth

I know you have claimed that 'my advice is shit' without actually which advice was shit because you got your feeling hurt. But the overall answer is yes everyone can get better, some will more than others, some will be better for them, others by comparison metrics, but no it is not a marketing ploy

My 6th degree bb professor swears on the mantra that in his 30 years of teaching BJJ, consistency and training overcomes any talent. He swears he has never seen a person, no matter age , size , gender or athleticism NOT become good at bjj if he or she trains consistently (i.e at least 3 times a week for years).

However just after he said that speech I saw a new blue belt get chocked out by a brand new 2 months white belt in about 3 minutes. The bb is a bit older and not in great shape, but he trains about 2 or 3 times a week for about 2 years now.

Is what my professor says true? He is very experienced and has been teaching for 30 years... or is it just a marketing ploy ?

Mainly interested in responses from experienced bjj guys

 

[lechien]

My 6th degree bb professor swears on the mantra that in his 30 years of teaching BJJ, consistency and training overcomes any talent. He swears he has never seen a person, no matter age , size , gender or athleticism NOT become good at bjj if he or she trains consistently (i.e at least 3 times a week for years).

However just after he said that speech I saw a new blue belt get chocked out by a brand new 2 months white belt in about 3 minutes. The bb is a bit older and not in great shape, but he trains about 2 or 3 times a week for about 2 years now.

Is what my professor says true? He is very experienced and has been teaching for 30 years... or is it just a marketing ploy ?

Mainly interested in responses from experienced bjj guys

There is 2 possibilities.

That white belt is bs and train more than 2 months.

Or

The blue belt put himself in a bad spot on purpose to practise something and got submitted. It happens all the time.

No one really cares.

 

[Foxflechette57]

Hard work will make you better no matter what, but good genetic is just as important. if you are 1m70 you will stay at 1m70 no matter how much you work.. at equivalent work rate, the most gifted will win..

 

[Uchi Mata]

In ~14 years of grappling, I have only seen 1-2 people who just never 'got it' no matter how much or how hard they train. It does happen, but it's extremely rare. That said, differences in age and athleticism matter a great deal, much more so than many coaches will admit to white belts (probably because it's not a very helpful statement to make even if it's true). One of my sessions every week is training at a pretty decent MMA gym (lots of Bellator, RFA, and a few UFC pros), and while many of the guys are only blue belts they all give me a super hard time as an experienced brown belt because they're 10+ years younger than me, train all the time being pro athletes, and are universally in incredible shape. Yeah, my technique is a lot better, but there's a lot to be said for being strong, tough, and able to literally never stop moving for an entire 7 minute round. You can't let it get you down too much. It doesn't mean BJJ doesn't work, it just means that it's not magic. And just because someone older/smaller/less athletic gets owned by someone lower ranked but superior on every other relevant dimension doesn't mean their BJJ is bad, just that it's not good enough to overcome the physical gap.

 

[kjg1672]

I train with a purple belt who is about 50. If he weren't wearing a belt you would think he's been training for maybe two months. I doubt he's ever subbed anybody. I've never seen anyone struggle like he does, but he's one of the most mentally tough people I've been around. He never seems to get down on himself. He trains a few times a week religiously (although he doesn't take advanced classes). It's actually pretty inspiring. As much as he struggles, the guy just really likes jiu-jitsu. I'm not sure what I would do if I were the instructor, though. I'm not sure I could promote him to black belt, at least not until he's been training for at least 12 or 13 years. And unless he gets seriously injured, I don't see the guy ever quitting.

 

[mattemate]

I train with a purple belt who is about 50. If he weren't wearing a belt you would think he's been training for maybe two months. I doubt he's ever subbed anybody. I've never seen anyone struggle like he does, but he's one of the most mentally tough people I've been around. He never seems to get down on himself. He trains a few times a week religiously (although he doesn't take advanced classes). It's actually pretty inspiring. As much as he struggles, the guy just really likes jiu-jitsu. I'm not sure what I would do if I were the instructor, though. I'm not sure I could promote him to black belt, at least not until he's been training for at least 12 or 13 years. And unless he gets seriously injured, I don't see the guy ever quitting.

How can that guy really be a purple belt even? I'm sorry but I feel that if ya don't get it, it's fine to be blue belt for life.
I actually really like the way my coach does promotions. A lot of people would say he sandbags, but it's more about having high standards. Purples, browns, and even blacks come from other academies and almost universally are a belt or two too high, at least the way it plays out on the mat. When you get to purple, it should really mean something imo. I'm not saying you should be a world beater necessarily, but I think you should have multiple options at every position, should have enough understanding of the mechanics of the game to improvise, and should have a fluid game. I can't imagine someone that "struggles" so much ever making purple by those standards.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I train with a purple belt who is about 50. If he weren't wearing a belt you would think he's been training for maybe two months. I doubt he's ever subbed anybody. I've never seen anyone struggle like he does, but he's one of the most mentally tough people I've been around. He never seems to get down on himself. He trains a few times a week religiously (although he doesn't take advanced classes). It's actually pretty inspiring. As much as he struggles, the guy just really likes jiu-jitsu. I'm not sure what I would do if I were the instructor, though. I'm not sure I could promote him to black belt, at least not until he's been training for at least 12 or 13 years. And unless he gets seriously injured, I don't see the guy ever quitting.

That guy shouldn't be a purple belt. Why does he never go to advanced classes? How do you get a purple belt without doing advanced technique? And even if you're 50, a purple belt should still be tapping most white belts, barring the 230 lb former college linebacker.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

I'd say marketing ploy. He's basically saying he'd work with anyone and they will get better. You don't want to limit your business to just those that are talented. There isn't enough money in that.

 

[kjg1672]

That guy shouldn't be a purple belt. Why does he never go to advanced classes? How do you get a purple belt without doing advanced technique? And even if you're 50, a purple belt should still be tapping most white belts, barring the 230 lb former college linebacker.

I totally agree with you and Mattemate. It's ridiculous that the guy is a purple belt, and I think he even got it in less than 4 years. I've never got too wrapped up in who deserves promotions, including my own, but this one bothered me. I personally believe that someone needs to be pretty much a phenom to get a purple in under 4 years. The petty part of me hopes the guy quits so he doesn't keep getting promoted.

 

[007]

I can only train 2-3 times a week if I am lucky with work and family life. At 35 when i train 3 times a week I usually get a injury that keeps me out a couple weeks. I no I have improved and can stick with Blue belts but I don't ever get stripes or anything for lack of showing up i guess. But in the end I am not there for that and I am there to learn and make myself better