BJJ and strokes

I am very thankful for this thread and sorry for those who suffered a stroke. This is a good thing to be aware of. To put it in perspective ...

Assume 2,000,000 people practicing BJJ world wide.
Assume the number of strokes is 200

That means you have a 0.01% chance of a stroke.

If you decide you are going to tap even earlier to a choke based on this great thread, your number goes down from there.

I don't write this to minimize the seriousness, risk, or the need to be careful.
 
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Oldguy said:
I am very thankful for this thread and sorry for those who suffered a stroke. This is a good thing to be aware of. To put it in perspective ...

Assume 2,000,000 people practicing BJJ world wide.
Assume the number of strokes is 200

That means you have a 0.01% chance of a stroke.

If you decide you are going to tap even earlier to a choke based on this great thread, your number goes down from there.

I don't write this to minimize the seriousness, risk, or the need to be careful.
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Well it's probably higher than that but we just don't know. It may not be that BJJ causes them either- correlation is not causation after all. The theory behind it is sound, but without a lot of studies proving it there's no way to actually know and this seems like a really hard thing to study. There are just too many factors that can cause a stroke in your life outside of BJJ.

But with this knowledge in mind, maybe just tap when a choke is close even if you think you can get out? Probably good advice i'll never follow.
 
I've personally trained individuals who've had strokes in this way and encourage everyone to take what they say very seriously. Train safely and understand the presence of risk in applying chokes. Take care of yourself and your peers.
 
Grassshoppa said:
Been a while since I've googled for new cases. I had my gi on when my stroke occurred, however the gi was not involved in my VAD/stroke. It was the pressure on the neck and vertebral artery. Chris Martin has a good compilation of video interviews:

Compilation of all Chris Martin BJJ stroke videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisMartinbizjitsu/videos?view=0&sort=dd&flow=grid
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Bellator fighter Cris “sunshine” lencioni is in recovery after a stroke brought on by a heart attack or something like that months ago.

kid is doing a lot better now but holy Shit those first few videos after it happened were tough to watch
 
Grassshoppa said:
Edit 12/4/2020 - Thank you all for sticking this thread. I feel much better about having shared the story now that it's been stickied because I feel it will save others. If only one husband, father, wife, mother, child, is saved from this knowledge then we have all done our part. Thank you both for doing the right thing, moving our sport forward, and most importantly, caring about the well-being of others. I've added my story to the bottom of this original post.

Hi everyone, here's some information about BJJ and strokes. This is FYI only, not a statement. If you Googled "BJJ and stroke" a few years ago there wasn't that much out there. Google "BJJ and stroke" now and there's a lot more stories out there. Chris Martin has a series of videos where he interviews BJJ guys who've suffered strokes from BJJ. They're worth watching. Not trying to deter or scare anyone. Be safe.



http://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/8660482/sean-entin-life-choke

https://www.mdedge.com/fedprac/arti...tery-dissection-active-duty-soldier-due-mixed

https://www.cbssports.com/mma/news/...ced-to-retire-at-44-after-suffering-a-stroke/

https://adventuresinhealth.tv/2019/...rotid-artery-and-a-stroke-with-matthew-jacob/










Compilation of all Chris Martin BJJ stroke videos: https://www.youtube.com/c/ChrisMartinbizjitsu/videos?view=0&sort=dd&flow=grid

I think it's time I stepped forward on this. I would like to request the mods sticky this thread for reasons of awareness and safety. At first, my intention in posting this was to bring awareness. Now, I feel it's important to share my story in the hope that it never happens to someone else, especially someone who might be a father and husband. About four years ago I suffered a stroke from a choke. One night I was put in a head-arm choke. I don't remember a lot because the stroke killed 30 percent of my brain. I do remember that night when I got home my neck and head hurt. One week later the stroke hit. I won't go into too many details, partly because I don't remember much and partly because I have PTSD from the stroke and thinking about it sometimes causes flashbacks that I don't like to experience again. When the stroke hit I had a horrific feeling. It was a very scary loss of control and tunnel like experience with the onset of terrifying vertigo. There was a moment in which I felt like I passed through the line between life and death. A brief skip over of the line of death and back into life. I thought of my wife and young son. I thought I was in the moment of death. The room flipped sideways and I immediately had massive vomiting. Fortunately, I could still talk. I couldn't stand and basically laid face down with uncontrollable vomiting until paramedics arrived.

I was transported to a hospital where I continued to vomit along the way. At this point, it's all a blur unless I really try to remember details. I was pumped full of morphine and remained in the hospital for days. I do remember one time someone came in and held up a page with some people on it and asked me what they were doing. Because I had previously worked in a hospital I said to them, "Is this a stroke test?" I think they said yes. I would wake up in the hospital, complain my head hurt, and they would dose me up with more morphine and back to sleep I went. Thanks to God I had no permanent physical disabilities but the inner mental and emotional damage has been very hard and something I continue to struggle with this day. The stroke left with me things I never really thought existed before such as de-realization, anxiety, PTSD, and a host of other inner anguish. I consider myself lucky given that others who have suffered strokes are left without use of an arm, difficulty talking, can't walk, etc.

I should have shared this a long time ago. I'm not exactly sure why I didn't. Perhaps embarrassment, but I'm not sure why. Perhaps for not wanting to remember it. I share it now because I do not want this to happen to you. With every ounce of my core, I say this, you do not want to have a stroke. I could have died and left my wife and young son all because of unawareness of the potential dangers of a choke from a sport. I consider it no different than awareness of CTE in other contact sports, such as football. I could have been left paralyzed, unable to talk, walk, work, or feed myself. I hope this gives you pause to think and consider how you train. Perhaps you don't train with chokes anymore. Maybe you train with them being loosely applied and no fighting against them or hard application. Whatever you do, please take this awareness into account and make a choice that is best for you, your family, friends, and those that care about you. Share these stories with your gym owner, coaches, training partners, everyone you can. It might just save someone's life and I certainly hope it might save yours.
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<{you!}>

Fuck, I'm literally thinking about starting BJJ for the first time ever (to lose weight, get in shape, and actually learn some BJJ) and I was thinking about this other day. The thought scares the shit out of me. Oh well... if I actually follow through and begin BJJ, I plan on tapping a lot. A lot, a lot. Like the instant I feel my neck get wrapped up-TAP TAP TAP. Don't even try to resist. And hope the fucker on the other end of me doesn't crank it just to show how tough he is.
 
Adamant said:
<{you!}>

Fuck, I'm literally thinking about starting BJJ for the first time ever (to lose weight, get in shape, and actually learn some BJJ) and I was thinking about this other day. The thought scares the shit out of me. Oh well... if I actually follow through and begin BJJ, I plan on tapping a lot. A lot, a lot. Like the instant I feel my neck get wrapped up-TAP TAP TAP. Don't even try to resist. And hope the fucker on the other end of me doesn't crank it just to show how tough he is.
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You should start it up, the health benefits you will gain should outweigh the negatives. Or you can do Muay Thai, the older I get (32) the more I appreciate striking arts and see them as something I can do long term, where my grappling career really is pretty close to its end after 12 years. Either way join a gym and have some fun
 
Grappling is really something you need to do when you are young and can handle little injuries or even major ones or for actual competitors who are older IMO. Guys working regular jobs cannot really afford to miss work with all of the injuries that come with it. On the other hand you can literally get badly hurt doing pretty much anything so YOLO
 
Smato_rules said:
You should start it up, the health benefits you will gain should outweigh the negatives. Or you can do Muay Thai, the older I get (32) the more I appreciate striking arts and see them as something I can do long term, where my grappling career really is pretty close to its end after 12 years. Either way join a gym and have some fun
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I don't have any interest in striking. I tried Kenpo Karate once and it was boring as shit. Granted I only did it for a month but it wasn't fun. A bunch of lame katas and our sparring was just "block/punch" and "block/chop". I don't even remember sweating. I know you can't really judge something properly like that after a month, but just watching BJJ videos and wrestling around for fun, I feel like BJJ is going to be WAY more entertaining than anything else and thus will hold my interest and keep me coming back. So it's the only one I'm looking at. Cross Fit isn't all that great. Going to the gym sucks. Etc.

I think I'll actually stick with BJJ as long as I don't get hurt. I feel like it's the thing that will get me in shape AND turn me into a badass.
<36>
 
Adamant said:
I don't have any interest in striking. I tried Kenpo Karate once and it was boring as shit. Granted I only did it for a month but it wasn't fun. A bunch of lame katas and our sparring was just "block/punch" and "block/chop". I don't even remember sweating. I know you can't really judge something properly like that after a month, but just watching BJJ videos and wrestling around for fun, I feel like BJJ is going to be WAY more entertaining than anything else and thus will hold my interest and keep me coming back. So it's the only one I'm looking at. Cross Fit isn't all that great. Going to the gym sucks. Etc.

I think I'll actually stick with BJJ as long as I don't get hurt. I feel like it's the thing that will get me in shape AND turn me into a badass.
<36>
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You should search out if you have any tiger rock gyms in your area. Lots of sparring as well as BJJ.
 
Adamant said:
I don't have any interest in striking. I tried Kenpo Karate once and it was boring as shit. Granted I only did it for a month but it wasn't fun. A bunch of lame katas and our sparring was just "block/punch" and "block/chop". I don't even remember sweating. I know you can't really judge something properly like that after a month, but just watching BJJ videos and wrestling around for fun, I feel like BJJ is going to be WAY more entertaining than anything else and thus will hold my interest and keep me coming back. So it's the only one I'm looking at. Cross Fit isn't all that great. Going to the gym sucks. Etc.

I think I'll actually stick with BJJ as long as I don't get hurt. I feel like it's the thing that will get me in shape AND turn me into a badass.
<36>
Click to expand...
Yeah I agree grappling is way more fun, those who like it tend to get obsessed (in a good way) and it’s really a great journey. Have fun and don’t overthink it, you have the right mindset of tapping early. The stroke thing goes hand in hand with my biggest issue which is my neck. Don’t let anyone squeeze your neck for extended periods of time! Or really every, unless they are demonstrating or drilling but you aren’t a grappling dummy, do not let them experiment on you. I used to not choke easily and would camp out in chokes, now my neck hurts just about every time I grapple.
 
I did five rounds of five minutes of rolling yesterday, and this thread was on my mind the whole time I was rolling. I tapped quicker than usual.
 
Adamant said:
<{you!}>

Fuck, I'm literally thinking about starting BJJ for the first time ever (to lose weight, get in shape, and actually learn some BJJ) and I was thinking about this other day. The thought scares the shit out of me. Oh well... if I actually follow through and begin BJJ, I plan on tapping a lot. A lot, a lot. Like the instant I feel my neck get wrapped up-TAP TAP TAP. Don't even try to resist. And hope the fucker on the other end of me doesn't crank it just to show how tough he is.
Click to expand...

Been a while since I logged in. I think awareness is the key similar to CTE with other contact sports. I don't think I'll ever train again, even though I still miss it, because I have other responsibilities that flashed before my eyes when I basically almost died. Family, wife, child. Now that I'm even older, I really don't like the risk of getting hurt and it affecting my job.

If I did ever train, I would be intentional with how I trained. I'd talk with the instructor and explain my awareness/goals, only attend the 40+ class, roll only with others who know and understand my neck concerns, roll only with other professionals who are not in their 20s who want to be fighters and don't have any responsibilities, focus more on warm ups, drills, and maybe only ten to fifteen minutes of rolling instead of 30 minutes.

The seasons of our lives change sometimes and I think the season of BJJ has passed for me. My main goal now is to bring awareness to others so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
 
Grassshoppa said:
Been a while since I logged in. I think awareness is the key similar to CTE with other contact sports. I don't think I'll ever train again, even though I still miss it, because I have other responsibilities that flashed before my eyes when I basically almost died. Family, wife, child. Now that I'm even older, I really don't like the risk of getting hurt and it affecting my job.

If I did ever train, I would be intentional with how I trained. I'd talk with the instructor and explain my awareness/goals, only attend the 40+ class, roll only with others who know and understand my neck concerns, roll only with other professionals who are not in their 20s who want to be fighters and don't have any responsibilities, focus more on warm ups, drills, and maybe only ten to fifteen minutes of rolling instead of 30 minutes.

The seasons of our lives change sometimes and I think the season of BJJ has passed for me. My main goal now is to bring awareness to others so this doesn't happen to anyone else.
Click to expand...
Thanks for raising awareness. This thread has definitely made me train smarter. I basically tap to a strong breeze these days, and, as you mentioned, I stay away from young, strong guys.
 
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