Bj penn is the real goat

B ville Famous said:
At this point it's like talking to a wall. He has some personal vendetta against BJ so no point to feed the troll.
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Yea you're right....a guy who's 16-12-2 and third best win is Kenny Florian is definitely goat worthy.

Here, name one guy on this list that bj deserves to be ahead of.

Fedor
Jones
Gap
Silva
Nog
Hendo
Werdum
Aldo
Mm
Hughes
Cormier
JDS
Edgar
Wand
Chuck
Shogun
Machida
McGregor
Weidman
Rampage
Overeem
 
jaredmc16 said:
BJ looks like a skeleton at 145. Doesn't look healthy at all. He went there only because he got his ass kicked out of 155.

I'm not even going to discuss how a loss is a reason as to why someone is one of the GOATS. The fight went to a decision because it was a boring sloppy fight in which neither had ant desire of finishing.

Gracie is not a credible win.... the fact that you even mention that win when discussing someone for goat status proves your guy doesn't deserve to be in the competition
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10-3-1 record is really getting your ass kicked at 155 lol. Losses to only prime Jens and prime frankie. Penn could have made 45 his whole career, he's naturally built for it, he just never bothered cutting weight.

How does a close loss by decision at HEAVYWEIGHT to Lyoto hurt his reputation? Especially when he's fought as low as 145!!! If anything it makes him even more legendary for having the balls to do it. No other 145er would even think twice about taking on a 220 pd machida.

Gracie is a very credible win, especially when you factor in it was at 185 pds. Gracie was 5-0, an adcc gold medalist, and had trained under Renzo.

I'm done. You must be a closet GSP fanboi
 
B ville Famous said:
Beat Gomi, Ludwig (#1 LW at the time), Uno, Matt Hughes, Florian, and Sherk. So how is he mediocre?
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Just new fans who don't understand the significance of those wins relative to when he beat them.
 
Pierced7681 said:
10-3-1 record is really getting your ass kicked at 155 lol. Losses to only prime Jens and prime frankie. Penn could have made 45 his whole career, he's naturally built for it, he just never bothered cutting weight.

How does a close loss by decision at HEAVYWEIGHT to Lyoto hurt his reputation? Especially when he's fought as low as 145!!! If anything it makes him even more legendary for having the balls to do it. No other 145er would even think twice about taking on a 220 pd machida.

Gracie is a very credible win, especially when you factor in it was at 185 pds. Gracie was 5-0, an adcc gold medalist, and had trained under Renzo.

I'm done. You must be a closet GSP fanboi
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Was BJ at lightweight or 145 when he fought Machida?

Is Frankie Edgar smaller and a better fighter?
 
Pierced7681 said:
10-3-1 record is really getting your ass kicked at 155 lol. Losses to only prime Jens and prime frankie. Penn could have made 45 his whole career, he's naturally built for it, he just never bothered cutting weight.

How does a close loss by decision at HEAVYWEIGHT to Lyoto hurt his reputation? Especially when he's fought as low as 145!!! If anything it makes him even more legendary for having the balls to do it. No other 145er would even think twice about taking on a 220 pd machida.

Gracie is a very credible win, especially when you factor in it was at 185 pds. Gracie was 5-0, an adcc gold medalist, and had trained under Renzo.

I'm done. You must be a closet GSP fanboi
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Gracie wasn't even a top 100 fighter. BJ isn't a natural 145er. There's a reason he looked so indelibly terrible any time he f fought at 145.

Yes losing two in a row to the same guy and knowing he wasn't getting a title shot any time soon is the reason he kept changing weights. He was used to getting a tittle shot any time he wanted
 
jaredmc16 said:
So I guess Ben Askren is also a GOAT contender... because its not his fault who's in his division.

BJ might very well have been the best lw... but he didn't prove it. His best LW reign in which people around here consider legendary for some reason consisted of him going 5-2 in a weak division
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You're throwing context out the window for convenience.

He smashed Gomi, Ludwig and Uno at LW just as he was starting out. That's crazy in retrospect - that would be like a prospect getting the chance to fighting Conor, Khabib and Ferguson over the next year and winning.

He then beat Hughes at WW because there was no more LW division...that would be like Holloway stepping up and schooling Conor for the 155 belt. Hughes was considered the most dominant champ in the most stacked division at the time.

He then fucked up his relationship with the UFC and took some ridiculous fights at heavier weight classes with world class opponents and won some of them. He nearly beat Lyoto prior to his UFC run to the belt.

He then came back to the UFC and nearly beat GSP, who went on to become one of the P4P greats. He nearly beat Hughes again for the belt, had he not seperated a rib in the second round.

He then got the LW strap and defended it a bunch of times.

IMO he is the most talented fighter to ever step inside the octagon (taking into account the period of his prime). He won the ADCC blackbelt division after three years of BJJ training. He then developed some of the most effective TDD and offensive boxing of his time. He should have been the greatest ever.

I believe it was his ego that fucked his GOAT status. He should have stayed with the UFC after beating Hughes the first time. He should have stayed at LW for his career once the division was reinstated. He should have trained smarter and harder, partied less, and went to a real camp instead of doing half assed training with his yes men in Hawaii.

It was all too little, too late. He lost a step after 2011, and took stupid punishment from the elite at WW for no reason. We all know what happened after that.

He should have been the best ever, but like Jones, he was his own worst enemy.
 
spannered said:
You're throwing context out the window for convenience.

He smashed Gomi, Ludwig and Uno at LW just as he was starting out. That's crazy in retrospect - that would be like a prospect getting the chance to fighting Conor, Khabib and Ferguson over the next year and winning.

He then beat Hughes at WW because there was no more LW division...that would be like Holloway stepping up and schooling Conor for the 155 belt. Hughes was considered the most dominant champ in the most stacked division at the time.

He then fucked up his relationship with the UFC and took some ridiculous fights at heavier weight classes with world class opponents and won some of them. He nearly beat Lyoto prior to his UFC run to the belt.

He then came back to the UFC and nearly beat GSP, who went on to become one of the P4P greats. He nearly beat Hughes again for the belt, had he not seperated a rib in the second round.

He then got the LW strap and defended it a bunch of times.

IMO he is the most talented fighter to ever step inside the octagon (taking into account the period of his prime). He won the ADCC blackbelt division after three years of BJJ training. He then developed some of the most effective TDD and offensive boxing of his time. He should have been the greatest ever.

I believe it was his ego that fucked his GOAT status. He should have stayed with the UFC after beating Hughes the first time. He should have stayed at LW for his career once the division was reinstated. He should have trained smarter and harder, partied less, and went to a real camp instead of doing half assed training with his yes men in Hawaii.

It was all too little, too late. He lost a step after 2011, and took stupid punishment from the elite at WW for no reason. We all know what happened after that.

He should have been the best ever, but like Jones, he was his own worst enemy.
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The thing with bj is that he could lose badly to a fighter and his fans would still say he was more talented. Edgar being an example

You're way over rating the LWs he beat early in his career.

You gonna say out of my list who he's above?

If he was the most talented fighter ever he'd have a lot better record
 
jaredmc16 said:
So I guess Ben Askren is also a GOAT contender... because its not his fault who's in his division.

BJ might very well have been the best lw... but he didn't prove it. His best LW reign in which people around here consider legendary for some reason consisted of him going 5-2 in a weak division
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I was comparing the era, time frame, prime.

Askren is in GSPs era so you're obviously not understanding what I'm typing.
 
jaredmc16 said:
The thing with bj is that he could lose badly to a fighter and his fans would still say he was more talented. Edgar being an example

You're way over rating the LWs he beat early in his career.

You gonna say out of my list who he's above?

If he was the most talented fighter ever he'd have a lot better record
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And yet, you can't name a better LW during BJ's reign...
 
jaredmc16 said:
The thing with bj is that he could lose badly to a fighter and his fans would still say he was more talented. Edgar being an example

You're way over rating the LWs he beat early in his career.

You gonna say out of my list who he's above?

If he was the most talented fighter ever he'd have a lot better record
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Edgar just edged him in their first fight. The second was more convincing, but he didn't get demolished like people make out.

I'm not gonna pick names out of your list, but IMO he's easily above most of those guys as far as career perspectives from their primes.go.

Were you watching MMA back in 2004 - 6?

His wins over Gomi, Hughes, Pulver and Gracie were huge back in the day. Sherk had only lost to GSP and Hughes when he got smoked by BJ as the LW champ. Florian was a top 10 P4P at the time. Even Diego was a big threat. He nearly beat GSP in their first fight.

I know most of those names seem laughable now, but they were legitimate, top of the game fighters at the time. You could dissect any of the old school fighters careers like that. Anderson's record seems pretty ordinary now, the same with Fedor and GSP. That's the nature of the game, people forget how dangerous fighters were once they fall out of prime and rack up losses.
 
F-ck yeah War BJ!!!

Do y'all noobs discredit Spider's GOAT status because his division wasn't the strongest while he was in his prime? Of course not..

Penn vs Hughes 2 is the illest for sure..

JUst scrAp..
 
B ville Famous said:
What rules? Most fighters are gifted Title Shots. Lets see, Anderson Silva after Leben, Weidman after Munoz, Dan Henderson after Lombard, Alvarez after Melendez, Garbrant after Mizugaki (lol), and the list goes on and on.

The real question is, did they win the title or not? Did they beat the best in the world or not? Gifted title shots dont matter if they win the title fight. Winning the title obviously meant that they deserve to fight the champ in the first place.
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Ha, go back and read what you wrote. Like I said, you're changing the rules or back peddling. The two guys you're whining about both won their title fights when they "cut in line".
 
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