Better MMA wrestler - Jones or DC?

[Gregoire1]

I'd say DC has the better overall offensive wrestling in mma while Jones has the better clinch.Looking at their fights not against each other i'd say DC is the more effective offensive wrestler while they both have obviously top notch wrestling and their own strong points.I'd say DC is the better mma wrestler while Jon has a good style to defend it.Jon taking down a super tired DC in the first match doesn't really change anything for me.Obviously super close.DC uses his wrestling a lot more than Jon and is very effective with it.

You talk about other opponents. And if we talk about head-to-head MMA wrestling?

 

[Sapp]

I don't think you even need to specify mma wrestling. In 2017 Jones also beats DC in pure wrestling.

You're gonna need a lot to justify that one. Jon was a regional-level wrestler for his amateur career, as opposed to DC being top 3 in his weight class worldwide with a gold medal in Ivan Yarygrin. Obviously DC isn't in his wrestling prime, but there's literally no comparison to be had between their wrestling accomplishments.

You can't use the MMA fights to precisely judge better pure wrestlers just like you cant use them to perfectly judge betting pure boxing, since the way you fight in the different rulesets is drastically altered.

 

[thobra]

You're gonna need a lot to justify that one. Jon was a regional-level wrestler for his amateur career, as opposed to DC being top 3 in his weight class worldwide with a gold medal in Ivan Yarygrin. Obviously DC isn't in his wrestling prime, but there's literally no comparison to be had between their wrestling accomplishments.

You can't use the MMA fights to precisely judge better pure wrestlers just like you cant use them to perfectly judge betting pure boxing, since the way you fight in the different rulesets is drastically altered.

Sure I can. I will also go even further and claim that JDS, a guy with nowhere near the striking resume of former world champions Mirko or Hunt, will beat them in a pure kickboxing match in 2017. I am even willing to bet money on it.

 

[Sapp]

Sure I can. I will also go even further and claim that JDS, a guy with nowhere near the striking resume of former world champions Mirko or Hunt, will beat them in a pure kickboxing match in 2017. I am even willing to bet money on it.

You say that like DC is completely washed up and not still a championship-level fighter. Cro Cop is a shot fighter, Hunt is ancient, worn, and was never a world-beating kickboxer (just look what Semmy did to him), it's not a fair comparison.

 

[thobra]

You say that like DC is completely washed up and not still a championship-level fighter. Cro Cop is a shot fighter, Hunt is ancient, worn, and was never a world-beating kickboxer (just look what Semmy did to him), it's not a fair comparison.

DC is still a championship level fighter, but not a championship level wrestler anymore. Mark Hunt was a championship level kickboxer and a K1 world champion. He won gold, something DC never did, so I would say he was pretty great. How can you say he is washed up now, when ranked no 6 in the world?

 

[Sapp]

DC is still a championship level fighter, but not a championship level wrestler anymore. Mark Hunt was a championship level kickboxer and a K1 world champion. He won gold, something DC never did, so I would say he was pretty great. How can you say he is washed up now, when ranked no 6 in the world?

DC didn't win olympic gold, but he was still ranked as #2 in his weightclass and won many other golds. Also- wrestling as a sport is many times as athletically competitive sport as kickboxing ever was. Hunt was a good kickboxer, but I think he was very fortunate to beat JLB to win that GP, given that he's 1-3 with him overall. His record with world-class kickboxers isn't fantastic.

Sure, DC is nowhere near his peak athletic form, but Jon hasn't trained pure wrestling for an even longer period of time, and has only a tiny fraction of DC's experience, and none of it at the very elite level.

DC beat 3-time all american and D1 champion Chris Pendleton in a 2014 exhibition match. There's evidence to say hes still in form. Jon has never competed at that level in wrestling in his own career, he wasn't THAT good. I doubt DC fell off over the course of 3 years.

 

[yeguiza]

another DC hate thread

stop it already

he is a beta to the alpha goat

as simple as that

 

[thobra]

DC didn't win olympic gold, but he was still ranked as #2 in his weightclass and won many other golds. Also- wrestling as a sport is many times as athletically competitive sport as kickboxing ever was. Hunt was a good kickboxer, but I think he was very fortunate to beat JLB to win that GP, given that he's 1-3 with him overall. His record with world-class kickboxers isn't fantastic.

Sure, DC is nowhere near his peak athletic form, but Jon hasn't trained pure wrestling for an even longer period of time, and has only a tiny fraction of DC's experience, and none of it at the very elite level.

DC beat 3-time all american and D1 champion Chris Pendleton in a 2014 exhibition match. There's evidence to say hes still in form. Jon has never competed at that level in wrestling in his own career, he wasn't THAT good. I doubt DC fell off over the course of 3 years.

I think DC fell off over the course of 3 years. I think Jones would outwrestle 2017 DC in a pure wrestling match, by being younger and stronger. Just like i think JDS would beat Mirko in a pure kickboxing fight in 2009 (just 3 years after he won the Pride GP by being a superior kickboxer). I think 3 years is enough to decline, just like we saw with many others, and 10 years since DC had an active wrestling career sure is enough.

I believe the fight with Jones is evidence enough that he would beat DC in a pure wrestling match in 2017. Of course I might be mistaken, but I think not.

 

[Sapp]

I think DC fell off over the course of 3 years. I think Jones would outwrestle 2017 DC in a pure wrestling match, by being younger and stronger. Just like i think JDS would beat Mirko in a pure kickboxing fight in 2009 (just 3 years after he won the Pride GP by being a superior kickboxer). I think 3 years is enough to decline, just like we saw with many others, and 10 years since DC had an active wrestling career sure is enough.

I believe the fight with Jones is evidence enough that he would beat DC in a pure wrestling match in 2017. Of course I might be mistaken, but I think not.

A MMA fight is fundamentally different to a wrestling match. Can't even really be compared aside from ballparking.

Burden of proof is on you to show how DC has gone from beating a 3 time all american D1 champion in 2014 to losing to a guy who hasn't wrestled since 2006. Lots of jon's physical advantages don't factor in as much and he'd be completely out of his element as experience is concerned.

Jon is both younger and stronger, but the level of technique and practice isn't at the same level. Wrestling isn't a strength match, and DC has five times the career experience and infinitely more experience at the world-class level. He's also wrestled more recently and continues to teach wrestling in his spare time. Jon doesn't even do it as a hobby. He'd be completely out of his element.

You're throwing your hat in with a guy who hasn't wrestled in a decade, and wasn't spectacular when he did.

 

[MCS]

DC. The short turns and arm drags he surprised Jones with are key. Jones didn't see them coming. JJ wore him out in the clinch the first time around, which makes for a good argument more so than TD's as the clinch leaning won him the fight.

Just for wrestling that is, as "MMA wrestling" or "MMA striking" often tells little of how good a fighter is in that discipline. It just means he's well-rounded.

 

[jeremyemilio]

After 2 fights between them we have now a lot of tape to investigate and give the conclusion. Who is finally better MMA wrestler between them?

I don't think the head to head matches give you the full picture.

DC has always wrestled as an undersized guy. He's developed a lot of techniques to deal with big, heavy, strong (but generally much slower) men and to mount an offense while reducing the risk of getting trapped under them (hence the high crotch / outside single he likes to use).

JJ is a tall guy who likes to load his opponents up and take them for a ride.

Head to head, JJ has the rare combo of range/height and the speed and maneuverability to neutralize DC's game, and DC's body type is handpicked for JJ's style.

But put JJ and DC against the same large HW sort of opponent, and the advantage switches. DC's game of coming in low to throw a guy off ballence but turning the corner to keep from getting trapped, is built around that sort of dynamic. JJ's game of loading shorter guys up and taking them for a ride is not.

tldr: DC's skill set and physical attributes put him at a disadvantage head to head, but put him at an advantage against most other opponents, and especially against large HWs.

 

[thobra]

A MMA fight is fundamentally different to a wrestling match. Can't even really be compared aside from ballparking.

Burden of proof is on you to show how DC has gone from beating a 3 time all american D1 champion in 2014 to losing to a guy who hasn't wrestled since 2006. Lots of jon's physical advantages don't factor in as much and he'd be completely out of his element as experience is concerned.

Jon is both younger and stronger, but the level of technique and practice isn't at the same level. Wrestling isn't a strength match, and DC has five times the career experience and infinitely more experience at the world-class level. He's also wrestled more recently and continues to teach wrestling in his spare time. Jon doesn't even do it as a hobby. He'd be completely out of his element.

You're throwing your hat in with a guy who hasn't wrestled in a decade, and wasn't spectacular when he did.

Because I believe from What we saw in their last fight, that in 2017 he is a better wrestler. I have no other proof, And we all know wrestling is a different sport than mma. I still believe because of youth, strength And the fact that Jones can train much more every day than DC can, that he would win if they wrestled. Of course experience means a lot, but when your physique start to fail, you can not do all the things you want to do to win.

I have no doubt that DC is a much better wrestling teacher, And that in theory he knows how to beat Jones. He is just so far behind physically that I don't think he can use his strengths to win in 2017. Again, this is just from seeing the mma fight, but I think it proves a lot.