Any hit to the head causes brain damage

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by mcdowels, May 28, 2018.

  1. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    you live by the sword you die buy the sword. sometimes i wish we were still fighting with swords. and i understand the concept of valhalla, you wouldn't want to live to an old age if you lived in a cold climate and had been smashed and chopped up a bunch of times.
     
  2. eternaldarkness

    eternaldarkness Brown Belt

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    that's not saying you can't train with swords without too many consequences, but once you start fighting for real you will always be taking damage. i kinda think people that are just doing it as a hobby and to learn a bit of self defence should stay away from heavy sparring. even though i have boxed more than half my life, i still encourage my sparring partners to keep it light. i am usually a lot more experienced and a heavier puncher than most people i spar against, so i always prefer light sparring and only throw hard when they piss me off (usually to the body).
     
  3. Noodles03

    Noodles03 Blue Belt

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    @Sano, what's your opinion on Lion's Mane Mushroom for brain damage?
     
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  4. dudeguyman

    dudeguyman Green Belt

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    To become the fire you have to get burned.
     
  5. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Don't have one, never heard about it's application. I just read a few articles and read through the cited studies, and as with most nutrion science it's not very well established. Initial reserach in rats on peripheral nerves is not exactly the same thing as CNS regeneration after a concussion. With that said, whatever we take in, including completely down to earth regular food, impacts our health and ability to regenerate cells, including glial cells and neurons. It's not magic.

    EDIT: I'm not saying that there isn't a possibility that it's great, just that it's not known. If there's no side effect, and it has other healthy benefits then go for it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
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  6. n.diazismylife1999

    n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

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    Have you looked into "cognitive reserve"?

    For example...

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28520675

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25701915

    It's interesting that cognitive reserve is apparently very helpful in staving off damage -- or, rather, making the damage have no effect on how well your mind functions. Would also explain why some people can take a lot of punches and be okay, while others get punch-drunk very early in their careers.

    But your cognitive reserves are used up as you age, and that's why the decline can be shockingly fast as people get older.
     
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  7. Phlog

    Phlog Dad Belt

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    Perhaps you could use your high IQ to capitalise correctly then.
     
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  8. biscuitsbrah

    biscuitsbrah Black Belt

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    That’s very interesting. I eat relatively healthy, get a lot of sleep, do a lot of cardio, and have spent thousands on supplements; and I have always felt my cognitive reserve was always really high compared to my body type. I’m not built to take a lot of damage but when I do it doesn’t affect me as much as I feel it should have
     
  9. Robocok

    Robocok Brown Belt

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    Now I'm afraid to continue sparring after reading this thread.
     
  10. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Yellow Belt

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    I've heard of the studies showing that boxing headgear has no effect on concussion risk in boxing; it's surprising that we haven't figured out a way for headgear to reduce neck whiplash.

    I know that the Renbukai karate guys used to use kendo gear when sparring. Would that have any effect, or is kendo headgear just as prone to allowing the brain to rattle around?
     
  11. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    You mean Kudo type headgear? They don't prevent brain damage, they only prevent superficial damage such as cuts and bruises, and also protect your eyes and teeth.
     
  12. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Yellow Belt

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    The older 60s/70s Okinawan Renbukai karate equipment looks less like the kudo "space helmets" than like adapted kendo gear. (I don't do kendo myself, though, so perhaps somebody else will correct me if I'm wrong.)

    Hopefully these images will work. They're book covers from a pair of 70s manuals of that style:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Marchini definitely trained with these doohickeys, and he was one of the better 60s/70s karateka. I think Lewis said he used similar protective gear on Okinawa, but he practiced another style.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  13. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Those types of protection are usually designed to protect the face, not the brain.
     
  14. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Yellow Belt

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    True. The apparent heaviness and odd weight distribution (it looks like it might disperse some of the force downward toward the shoulders or chest) made me wonder, though.
     
  15. wilddeuces

    wilddeuces Brown Belt

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    Yes and yes!

    If I take up something lame like wine tasting I run the risk of looking like a douche. Everything you do is a gamble with your existence one way or the other.

    If you train smart and focus on defense, you'll be better off than you think. The arms make for good shields and the feet keep you out of danger.

    This video also had the ironic effect of invigorating me. It reminds me of the terrible damage I can inflict with my fists, which is reassuring for self-defence purposes.
     
  16. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    No I hadn't looked into it, but it's very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the links!

    Seems like CR can help starve off damage, but only improves the efficacy of neural plasticity in severe mTBI recovery. That's just initial research though, so it'll be interesting to see what the prospects are. Can't really do anything about the genetic aspect, but the epigenetic one is interesting. As IQ, including working memory, verbal affluence and execute function, is used as a proxy for CR, you could hypothesize that working on those things, and neural processing, could have a protective effect. Well, it's not exactly news that stimulating neurogenesis (the formation of new neurons) helps with cognitive functions, but it's interesting to get something more definitive down on paper!

    It also leds into why stress, anxiety and depression can be a precurser to mTBI and worsen outcomes as well. Stress lowers Brain Derived Neurotrophic Factor (BDNF) which is a facilitator for neurogenesis and can even slow the rate of formation and kill neurons. Anxiety especially hinders the formation of new neurons in the Hippocampus, which is responsible for your memory retention. Exercising on the other hand improves BDNF in most instances.

    Basicly, lowering stress, having a good social network, positive attitude, eating healthy, being in good shape and working out, learning new motor skills, playing instruments, enjoying music and rhythms, actively using your memory, doing cognitive tasks, staying away from too much blue light screens, reading books, relaxing, meditating, visualising and so on are all brain stimulating and protective things both for recovery and prevention. This seem to be the same with TBIs and neurogenerative diseases like Alzheimers and Parkinsons alike.

    Anyway, thanks again for the links! I'll definitely read up on it more!
     
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  17. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    Just to specify. I read a lot about Valero and imo from chronology of events could very well be that he changed after he had the motorcycle accident with a persistent clot / swelling in the brain. He crashed without a helmet. The force of that accident had to be extreme for the brain and its very believable that he got permanent brain injuries because of that. And he always had this rage and antisocial tendencies even way before starting with boxing. Problems with police from a young age on. People described him as sometimes very polite and friendly but with a very short fuse and erratic behaviour out of nowhere.

    I really would not attribute boxing to him killing his wife but him being a piece of shit to his wife for years and in general and a even more drastic decline in character after the accident.

     
  18. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Again, getting hit in the head repeatedly with a hole in the skull could not have helped the situation in any way. Erratic and sudden violent behavior is common in CTE cases, so is suicide.
     
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  19. KBE6EKCTAH_CCP

    KBE6EKCTAH_CCP Arrow sash belt with Lederhosen

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    Excellent read. Thanks especially to that Sano dude who really put effort in informing us.

    Now I feel like a pussy asking this but what about cognitive losses when doing boxing as a hobby, say sparring twice a week, relatively light, with headgear?

    Thing is I have a pretty demanding job where being sharp is extremely important (calculating stuff, understanding weird shit quickly, negotiating, communication skills, etc.).

    I stopped sparring seriously since I m like 18 by fear of brain damage and I stick by that decision, but being in my late 30s and having more or less established myself, a part of me feels like saying fuck it.

    I can't afford to spar hard but what about the typical couple of days light sparring per week? Is there a risk for cognitive functions?
     
  20. kallestrof

    kallestrof White Belt

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    There's a price to pay for everything.

    I'm aware of the dangers. I still want to train and compete as an amateur within MMA, but only for a couple more years. I also adjust my style and training for longevity, avoiding hard sparring and using a style that limits damage.
     

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