Any hit to the head causes brain damage

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by mcdowels, May 28, 2018.

  1. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    I thought us sherbros had a connection going on and could expect to give to one another :)
     
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  2. Vaske

    Vaske White Belt

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    Ah, ffs, you WILL die one day. And no way to avoid it. So, what's the big deal? Besides, less inteligent people are often smarter, so...
     
  3. RabbitPunch36

    RabbitPunch36 White Belt

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    Is there anything more to staving away brain damage than good defence, hydration of the body (brain fluid), and strong neck muscles + rolling with punches, and diet (cbd oil, possibly keto diet) ? Not asking ask for anything specifically just wondering if you teach additional habitsm
     
  4. n.diazismylife1999

    n.diazismylife1999 Black Belt

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    Finally, something all of Sherdog agrees with you about.
     
  5. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Spoken like someone who has no clue about brain damage. You simply don't know.
     
  6. Reyesnuthugr

    Reyesnuthugr Dominick Reyes Belt

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    Some people are genetically prone to brain damage when boxing and some are resistant. You have to know your personal limits and be honest when recognizing them.

    ---

    Some people complain about technical fighters when they fight each other-- very few clean flush punches landed*. That's the whole point of the art if you're trying to avoid damage. Imagine how well it works IRL if it works that well in a pro fight ..

    (*when they fight less technical opponents [most, since few are technical], they can usually exploit that into landing devastating counters and run right over them. So learning to be smart and technical/defensive is anything but 'useless' in a real fight)

    So what I'm saying is-- I can't believe anyone would opt to "learn" to be a brawler/offense-based fighter (without learning the finer aspects of defensive movement and footwork) unless they're fine with brain damage (not to mention increased chance of losing). Most people, though man, I tell ya
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  7. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    I remember you touched on this topic before. Would you mind sharing your findings?
     
  8. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    What I meant by my comment is that conflating protecting your brain with "tiptoeing around life" shows a clear lack of understanding of the consequences of brain damage. Besides having PCS myself, I just finished my bachelors as a physio in concussions, PCS and autonomic dysfunction where I was in charge of a research project doing case studies with patients suffering from PCS. I've also worked in neurorehab with stroke victims, and others suffering from traumatic brain injuries.

    When you say findings, do you want me to address the claim in the OP, or something else specificly?
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  9. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    You know even more on the topic than I thought you did. I wouldn't mind reading a summary of how you think you ended up having PCS, what you would advise doing or not doing to avoid being in that situation of having PCS, or maybe some interesting facts you came across during your research.

    It's an important topic and a lot of people still lack proper education on the topic. People like you can massively help by educating others.
     
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  10. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    There's a lot to unpack, but I can try. I've been thinking about doing a writeup, but I have a few other obligations coming up so maybe in a little while. It's a difficult field because there are no respectable clinical guidelines, and a lot is not known about concussions and brain damage still. First thing is to clarify what a concussion is.

    Part 1
    Mechanism and pathophysiology of a concussion:

    A concussion is a mild traumatic brain injury as a result of trauma either directly to the head, or indirectly to other parts of the body, causing a rapid acceleration and deceleration of the brain. As soon as that happens, it sets off a pathophysiological process in the brain and an influx of glutamate and calcium, amongst others, which starts something called the neurometabolic cascade. This creates systemic changes in the brain including a release of inflammatory cytokines, disruption of the blood-brain-barrier and metabolic energy deficits. Concurrently, as mentioned in the vid in the OP, the initial trauma can cause biomechanical stretching and tearing of axons, which are nerve cells, and damage the white brain matter, which is the fatty matter covering those cells. This leads to slower synapse speed, aka, slower brain functions. All these things are thought to be behind the symptoms of a concussion which includes headaches, dizzyness, foggy brain, impaired cognition, nausea, anxiety, so on. This metabolic cascade usually lasts about 10 days, and after 14 days up to 90% of people suffering from a concussion are symptom free. However, 10-15% get prolonged symptoms, even after the acute disruptions in brain metabolism has subsided. No one knows exactly why that is.

    Contrary to popular belief, you do not have to lose consciousness to sustain a concussion. In fact, 90% of concussions happen WITHOUT the loss of consciousness. The tricky part is, that regular CT scans and MRIs can't tell you anything, and at this time, there are no standardises biomarkers for detecting a concussion. Certain unique MRIs, SPECT scans and even EEGs can shows signs of damage, but they are not included in general practice. You are diagnosed by your symptoms, which makes it harder to define as a condition. Future reliable biomarkers are needed, and being researched.

    Whiplash, vestibular and occular (eyes) dysfunction are often accompanied by a concussion, and are thought to be part of why some people have prolonged symptoms. It is pretty well established in the literature. However, newer research shows that dysautonomia, or rather, dysfuntion of the autonomic nervous system after a concussion can be a major factor in why some people experience prolonged or sustained symptoms. That is what our project sought out to investigate. Funny enough, while we were writing it, a review which was the first of its kind showed clear evidence between concussions and dysautonomia (https://content.iospress.com/articles/neurorehabilitation/nre172298). BTW, I have over a hundred citations which were used in our project, but I wont go through them here.

    The aforementoned neurometabolic cascade effects the limbic system of the brain, particularly the amygdala, which is basicly the fear center of the brain. That could explain why the rate of anxiety and depression after a concussion is much higher than in the general population. Equally importantly, the same cascade also effects the autonomic nervous sytem. That, and damage to the cranial nerves as a result of the whiplash often accompanied during the trauma might be why this happens. One of the cranial nerves, the vagus nerve, serves as the main branch to the so called parasympathetic nervous system, which is the "rest and digest" part of the nervous system that makes you relax. This relaxation can be inhibited after a concussion. The autonomic nervous sytem is also responsible for hormonal homeostatis (balance) in the body and works together with several brain regions to create this balance. This can be "out of whack" after a concussion.

    That is a VERY cursory look at the pathology behind a concussion, and PCS. Again, no one knows exactly why person A keeps having symptoms, but person B doesn't. As Reys said, it's very much an individual thing. Like all conditions really.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  11. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Part 2:
    NOW, in regards to my own PCS. I would say it's safe to bet that the amount of punishment I took to my head had something to do with it. I kept slugging hard in the gym in sparring. I didn't have any defense. I had several minor concussions (but thought they weren't because I wasn't knocked out and didn't know any better). I've never been knocked down so I thrived on taking a hard punch. I also lived a pretty rough life as a teenager and early twenties with a lot of alcohol, drugs and street fights. I suffered from anxiety and depression since I was young too, and there is some evidence to suggest that that can be a risk factor in developing PCS.

    When I got my first really bad concussion I went down and sparred the day after. I had symptoms for 7 months, then went back to the gym and picked up where I left off and got another bad concussion, was all wobbly and all over the place, and then sparred again the day after. That put the nail in the coffin for me and I have been having symptoms (although much better now) since that. In short, I was an idiot who thought he was invincible and that "it wouldn't happen to me". I did not respect my brain and I thought it was a sign of weakness to do so. This is why I always say, no one is tougher than brain damage.

    With all that said, I have worked with several patients who accidently hit their head on something while doing a completely mundane task, just once, and then had symptoms for years. Some people never recover from PCS, although that is still the clear minority.

    I have to go, but I'll write the last part on risk factors, prevention and recovery later tonight. As a preface, there is no magic bullet, but there are several things you can do to minimize the risk and recover better.
     
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  12. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Your life is the plot for the next Rocky film
     
  13. Clippy

    Clippy I HAVE FINALLY LANDED WOOT WOOT

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    I got hit in the head plenty of times

    smoke and mirrors
     
  14. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    and it ended up giving us GOAT clippy threads, so its all good in the end.
     
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  15. Clippy

    Clippy I HAVE FINALLY LANDED WOOT WOOT

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    I'm right in that sweet spot, more hits to the head and I'll end up like @Elon Musk :(
     
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  16. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    Not another one......please no.
     
  17. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    It has an awesome plot

    @Sano goes through a rough patch, then sherdog trains him to be the champ with montage music
     
  18. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    I want 20% and 50% of merchandising.......
     
  19. William Huggins

    William Huggins Blue Belt

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    How many "rough" patches can @Sano handle?
     
  20. Woldog

    Woldog Boxer

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    Incorrect, I know plenty about it. I simply don't care. I've never had a concussion, I've never been knocked out. I'd still say my chances of developing CTE are pretty high does that bother me? Not really nothing I can do about it now. Also you mistake my comment as saying "Brain damage is fine don't be a pussy" no it's more a comment that you can't tiptoe around everything that could possibly be bad for you. Smoking causes cancer that's not to say you should never have one cigarette.
     

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