ALIEN: COVENANT Thread v.2 (Dragonlord's Review, post #1)

If you have seen ALIEN: COVENANT, how would you rate it?


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All very astute points. Crudup following David's advice to look at the facehugger pod may have been the stupidest action in the movie...and there were a bunch of them.

I also find it particularly amusing that Ridley wanted to give "subtle" wink, winks to the audience to hint that Walter at the end was really David in disguise (the inability to heal, the different look of the severed hand) when it was patently obvious that was going to happen when they did not show Walter deliver the death blow and showed David reaching for a knife. Lame
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It really annoyed me that Walter told Daniels to leave, and that David got the drop on him the first time. He's way too smart for that. Why not just have Daniels shoot David, or why didn't Walter leave? What is David going to do, chase them down then get shot and/or the shit beat out of him? And NO ONE thinks to confirm that it's Walter and not David returning?

Plus, Daniels and Tennessee don't seem all that distraught about the death of their spouses what, hours before? Then they just get right back into the freezy tanks with no reservations after everything that had happened?
 
I couldn't agree more. Fassbender and McAvoy are up there with Leo, Bale and Hardy for me right now.

The logic flaws, shitty twists and paint by numbers plot really did in a visually stunning film in covenant for me. I think what bothers me most is that it would be relatively simple to elevate these films. The recipe and material is all there but it comes off so uninspired.

It's impossible to overstate how much McAvoy and Fassbender add to that X-men trilogy. Imo the scripts for those movies were pretty decent overall, but there delivery really takes it to another level. As a huge X-men fan it was a pleasure watching any scene they were in.
Awful. I almost went with a 5 but I dropped it to 4. I was intrigued for the first part, but it got worse and worse as it went on. I would have been fine with a movie about David and his experiments, continuing the Prometheus story line. The horror bits felt tacky and B movie, and the characters weren't interesting nor built up.



The first act was so good too, it's all downhill from there. Can't argue with your score, mine was probably overly generous. An extra point because I love the franchise, and another extra point because of Fassbender playing key roles. But the script is a mangled mess. Nobody acts remotely like a real believable human being. You never stop thinking "I am watching people pretend to be morons", other than during Fassbender's scenes.
 
That list is spot on. Hardy, Bale, Dicaprio, Fassbender would probably be my current top four favorite actors to watch as well. Joaquin Phoenix might round out the top 5.

Agree with you that they could pretty easily make these better. Dumb character decisions plagued both Prometheus and Covenant. I found those issues less glaring in this one than that one though- probably because the former focused more on philosophy/ideas while Covenant went more for fan-service horror/action.

I'm amazed by how much Waterston's career has taken off in the past three years or so. I remember seeing Inherent Vice in the theaters and wondering who this actress that is like four inches taller than Joaquin was. Looked her up after and was surprised to find out she was Sam Waterston's daughter. Now, I've seen in her Steve Jobs (also with Fassbender), Fantastic Beasts, and this film and I'm sure she's got a lot more on the docket.

She's a good actress and I think she's kinda sexy. I don't even know why.
 
It's an engineer in space suit. I'm certain this is 100% canon now.

I'm not so sure man. Why is it so much larger than the engineers we saw? And how did it survive being killed off by David? But mainly, it's just SO MUCH darn BIGGER than the engineers we've been shown. There has to be more to it than meets the eye.




8. So we're to believe Shaw was retarded enough to build David a new body knowing what a psycho he is? For reals?

As I recall David's body was in tact at the end of Prometheus. I remember Shaw lowering the body down with a rope, then apologizing and zipping David's head up in a bag.

But I haven't seen Covenant yet so I'm not sure if this is relevant.



I'm amazed by how much Waterston's career has taken off in the past three years or so. I remember seeing Inherent Vice in the theaters and wondering who this actress that is like four inches taller than Joaquin was. Looked her up after and was surprised to find out she was Sam Waterston's daughter. Now, I've seen in her Steve Jobs (also with Fassbender), Fantastic Beasts, and this film and I'm sure she's got a lot more on the docket.

I haven't seen Covenant yet, only seen pics and clips. But this is the first I've heard of Waterston and from what I can tell she is extremely cute! She has an interesting look. A little sexy and a lot of girl next door cuteness. I'm pretty sure I prefer her over Shaw any day. Also over Sigourney.



Plus, Daniels and Tennessee don't seem all that distraught about the death of their spouses what, hours before?

Like I said I haven't seen it yet, but I've been seeing this complaint a lot on here. I for one don't mind suspension of disbelief in a situation like that, because honestly who wants to watch characters mope around and mourn for the majority of a movie? I don't. If I was the director I'd likely brush past the mourning phases as well.
 
I might just be speaking for myself but I really dont need to see an alien climbing down a ladder



I'd actually prefer that

Nope I agree with you. Seeing an alien in full upside down on a ladder didn't expand any new horizons to me in the alien universe.

Or a dancing alien to David and his flute.

Surely they could at least use practical when the xeno walked upright into the big loading bay at the end
 
Like I said I haven't seen it yet, but I've been seeing this complaint a lot on here. I for one don't mind suspension of disbelief in a situation like that, because honestly who wants to watch characters mope around and mourn for the majority of a movie? I don't. If I was the director I'd likely brush past the mourning phases as well.

In their defense, they are probably still in shock considering the events that just happened and the total death toll.
 
Another subtle allusion to David being a stand in for Satan is his love of flute playing. Remember him helping Walter with his fingering?

Here is a description of Satan from Ezekiel 28. Ezekiel Chapter 28 is comparing the prideful fall of the King of Tyre to the prideful fall Satan.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+28&version=KJV

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Satan was described as having tabrets (tambourines) and pipes prepared in him upon his creation.

Here is the meaning of pipes in the Bible

Pipe [N]

( 1 Samuel 10:5 ; 1 Kings 1:40 ; Isaiah 5:12 ; 30:29 ). The Hebrew word halil, so rendered, means "bored through," and is the name given to various kinds of wind instruments, as the fife, flute, Pan-pipes, etc. In Amos 6:5 this word is rendered "instrument of music." This instrument is mentioned also in the New Testament ( Matthew 11:17 ; 1 Corinthians 14:7 ). It is still used in Palestine, and is, as in ancient times, made of different materials, as reed, copper, bronze, etc.

The pan flute is named after Pan, the Greek god of nature and shepherds often depicted with such an instrument.

So Pan is the god of shepherds and David chose his name from a statue of the Biblical David who was a shepherd and David refers to himself as a shepherd in the film.

pan7222.jpg


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnis

This is a statue of the god Pan showing Daphnis a man he was in love with to play the Pan pipes. This is very reminiscent of David teaching Walter to play the flute. The reason he taught Walter to play his pipe and later kissed him is that David is in love with himself in the same way that Satan is in love with himself and Walter is made in the same image as David.

Ezekiel 28:17

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Satan took pride in his own beauty so much so that he lost his wisdom in that he thought he was greater than God. This sounds like David's appraisal of himself over humanity and Engineer alike.

Kind of a crazy random post but the whole flute thing was bugging me.
 
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Seriously it's like someone said "you know we need at least 15 winks at the audience that Walter is David". Just cutting the hair to look the same and cutting away from their fight was WAY more than enough. Your characters might be idiots in these movies, that doesn't mean the entire audience is too.
Does it make it any better to see it from David's perspective? He is our viewpoint in this franchise. So it's more like, look how much these people deserve to die they're so stupid. Yes he's villainous but maybe we're looking at him incorrectly.

What if he's the hero?
 
I have to say. Regardless how you feel about the movie as a whole. David is one damn interesting and good villain.
 
I guess if you read the alien covenant book it fixes most of the problems with the movie
 
Michael Fassbender(in both roles) was the only thing the movie had going for it. Average as fuck.

I thought Prometheus was better.
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Watched this last night for a sweet £5.

My slow ass only realised it was a continuation from Prometheus on my way into the cinemas.

I thought it was ok. SFX are mental! Fassbender is a crafty cunt.
 
I'd guess they tested a cut without the red herring of the knife after the David/Walter fight and audiences were confused about the reveal. Once they showed the knife, it was a dead giveaway. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average movie-goer.

Re: Crudup's character putting his face over the egg. Remember, we know it's an egg. We've seen it several times. He doesn't. He's never seen it. Curiosity is a motherfucker.
 
Yeah won't lie I was disappointed by this movie.

A lot of it felt rushed, and it was also super predictable.

While I would not say it was a "bad" movie, it was not good and most everyone I was with walked out of the theater saying "meh"
 
The decisions made in the editing room definitely made it a worse movie. Considering the theatrical cuts of this, Bladerunner and Kingdom of Heaven, I don't know of another filmmaker who's been more hurt by editing.
 
Michael Fassbender(in both roles) was the only thing the movie had going for it. Average as fuck.

I thought Prometheus was better.
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I love H.R. Giger 's and Arthur Max's artistic vision, so for me it was also the design of the Engineers and their technology. I wish Scott had gone in a different direction, focusing on the Engineers and their world.
 
Covenant as a standalone movie is a good movie , but it is a disappointing move when viewed within the context of the Alien franchise.
 
I wish Scott had gone in a different direction, focusing on the Engineers and their world.

Yeah, they basically glossed over the whole damn thing. It seemed like the crew barely acknowledged or cared they were in an alien world and alien ruins.
 
I think that's the point. Looking for heaven or god is rarely what we expect it's gonna be. And I think the main thrust of David's story is robbing us of getting to know more about what created us. I don't think he hates the Engineers for having made a flawed creation so much as he wants to punish the creation by killing its creator.

I'd guess they tested a cut without the red herring of the knife after the David/Walter fight and audiences were confused about the reveal. Once they showed the knife, it was a dead giveaway. Never underestimate the stupidity of the average movie-goer.
I'm starting to believe it's done in a manner in which if you view it from the side of the colonists it looks a bit silly and obvious. But if you can look at it from the viewpoint of David, wherein the colonists are the antagonists, it takes on a different significance altogether. Like we're supposed to feel like, "Oh no, Walter got the drop on David! This could be it. He's on to all his tricks. No, I know my guy will weasel his way out of this one too, somehow."

I guess I come from that BLADE RUNNER debate club. Over the years we've had plenty of time to discuss the merits of both arguments, and to see that film both ways, and how even beyond the question of whether Deckard is a replicant, BLADE RUNNER is a film that exists with several layers of meaning. The detective story. The cyberpunk futurism. The rumination on the nature of humanity. The poetic thriller.

In PROMETHEUS even though I saw David acting vengeful, I didn't cotton on the fact he's not just evil but he's the devil. So COVENANT confirmed that with the opening sequence, and when he re-emerged COVENANT then brought me to the dichotomy that though he is the villain he's the hero too. Because all these other characters are gonna fall by the wayside, and we're going on his journey. What's fascinating to me is how his journey informs us of Ridley Scott's ideas on life and legacy and spirituality.
 
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