Alcohol and tobacco are by far the biggest threat to human welfare of all addictive drugs

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by Son of Jamin, May 16, 2018.

  1. Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Son of Jamin
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    Links:

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/add.14234

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...is-cocaine-amphetamines-opioids-a8345741.html

    Perhaps we should wage war on tobacco and alcohol instead of illegal drugs...

    Also in before someone claims that the war on drugs is the reason for the above findings.
     
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  2. trolldum Blue Belt

    trolldum
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    Drinking in moderation is less harmful than drugs and can even be healthy.
     
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  3. PrinceOfPain Silver Belt

    PrinceOfPain
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    I wouldn't credit the war on drugs with anything positive, generally, but the fact that more people die from abusing easier to get substances than hard to get ones is not exactly surprising.
     
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  4. Orgasmo Red Belt

    Orgasmo
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    Alcohol is NOT healthy under any circumstance. That myth has been recently busted.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...glass-day-increases-risk-various-cancers.html
     
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  5. trolldum Blue Belt

    trolldum
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    Throughout the 10,000 or so years that humans have been drinking fermented beverages, they’ve also been arguing about their merits and demerits. The debate still simmers today, with a lively back-and-forth over whether alcohol is good for you or bad for you.


    It’s safe to say that alcohol is both a tonic and a poison. The difference lies mostly in the dose. Moderate drinking seems to be good for the heart and circulatory system, and probably protects against type 2 diabetes and gallstones. Heavy drinking is a major cause of preventable death in most countries. In the U.S., alcohol is implicated in about half of fatal traffic accidents. Heavy drinking can damage the liver and heart, harm an unborn child, increase the chances of developing breast and some other cancers, contribute to depression and violence, and interfere with relationships.

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutrit...-to-consume-in-moderation/alcohol-full-story/

     
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  6. Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Son of Jamin
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  7. Neph Purple Belt

    Neph
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    Yep. I'm drinking my Wild Turkey and I know for sure it's fucking me up over time.

    We should be out there legalising a few other drugs to better control them, tax them, educate people on their harms and pay for the health costs for them.
     
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  8. nostradumbass Gold Belt

    nostradumbass
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    Wild Turkey
    {<redford}
     
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  9. tonni Black Belt

    tonni
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    Cannabis has a lot more benefits than alcohol, is less addictive and the withdrawal symptoms are much less harmful. Consider then the correlation between violence in society (related to bar culture) and more specifically domestic violence, and there's no comparison between the two.

    If you've ever been to Eastern Europe, you'll see really well how destructive alcohol culture is. I'm not saying it should be illegal, but the promotion of alcohol should stop. I'd also advise parents to not drink in front of the kids, same like you wouldn't smoke weed or pop an ecstasy pill in front of them.

    You didn't specify what you mean with "drugs", so I assumed you also included cannabis in this generalization.
     
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  10. tonni Black Belt

    tonni
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  11. VivaRevolution Whoopin' Belt

    VivaRevolution
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  12. tonni Black Belt

    tonni
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    The problem is the promotion of alcohol and the fact that it's associated with violence in public and at home. Objectively, it's a hard drug, but it's promoted like a harmless soft drug.

    Did you know quitting alcohol without the help of a doctor is more dangerous than quitting heroin?
     
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    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  13. Neph Purple Belt

    Neph
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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Son of Jamin
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    Agreed! It must be quite difficult to create a proper drug classification, based on both toxicity and harm to others. I think at best, it can give us a hint about the potential harm but it's far from a being the Gospel.
     
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  15. Neph Purple Belt

    Neph
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    I'd also say LSD has some pretty big concerns. Could you imagine if people took LSD the way they drink alcohol? It would rewire your brain in a heartbeat and you would be an absolute wreck.
     
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  16. tonni Black Belt

    tonni
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    You'll have to explain what you mean with "rewiring your brain". There'd be a lot more people claiming to know how to improve the wheel, though.
     
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  17. Neph Purple Belt

    Neph
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    Long-term Effects of LSD on the Brain
    According to the Cleveland Clinic, the exact effect of LSD on the brain remains unknown. But the drug is believed to affect your brain’s response to serotonin – a neurotransmitter that involves your emotions, moods and perceptions.3

    While immediate LSD use causes a variety of disorienting, distorted and emotional effects, there are also some potentially troublesome longer-term effects of LSD abuse:

    • Persistent psychosis – there are reports of lingering symptoms of psychosis (more below).
    • Recurrent hallucinations – even after you’ve stopped taking the drug.
    Some users report having mind-expanding, mystical experiences while they’re under the influence of LSD. However, because it’s impossible to control the type of experiences you’ll have, the length of your experience or your reactions to the drug – you cannot predict if you are likely to have terrifying hallucinations or pleasant ones. Even worse, these episodes may continue after you’ve stopped using LSD, interfering with your social and professional life and putting you at risk of anxiety, depression and suicide.

    Persistent Psychosis
    “Psychosis” is defined as a condition of dissociation from the real world.4 It is characterized by:

    1. Hallucinations – or perceiving things that aren’t actually there.
    2. Delusions – or false beliefs.
    Those with a history of long-term LSD use may experience psychotic episodes similar to people who suffer from schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, borderline personality disorder and other serious mental conditions.

    Even after quitting LSD, the drug-induced psychosis that may continue to persist can include:

    • Radically disorganized thought patterns.
    • Distortions of perceived reality.
    • Dramatic mood swings.
    Not everyone who uses hallucinogenic drugs experiences persistent psychosis, but it appears to still be a risk for some.

    Whether these episodes occur regularly or happen only occasionally, they can be terrifying and profoundly disturbing. Persistent psychosis can make it difficult to hold down a job, maintain a normal social life and form lasting personal relationships. During a psychotic episode, you may suffer a serious or fatal injury if your delusional experiences drive you to take life-threatening risks.

    Flashbacks vs. HPPD
    LSD flashbacks are often the subject of jokes in the media. Psychedelic drugs were widely abused in the 1960s by those looking to achieve an expanded state of consciousness. Some psychiatrists even prescribed LSD to their patients on a therapeutic or experimental basis.

    Today’s references to flashbacks frequently poke fun at these visionary explorations. But while some flashbacks may be amusing, colorful and even pleasant – hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD) can be a dangerous and frightening condition. While flashbacks are usually infrequent, reversible and harmless – episodes of HPPD can be:

    • A long-term, chronic side effect of LSD use.
    • Extremely disturbing.
    • Recurrent, reappearing over and over again.
    • Accompanied by dysphoria, or a sense of depression and malaise.
    • Irreversible – despite avoiding hallucinogenic drugs.
     
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  18. nostradumbass Gold Belt

    nostradumbass
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    He clearly said in moderation, so we're not talking bloody withdrawals.
     
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  19. tonni Black Belt

    tonni
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    Actually, the way most people look at drinking "in moderation", I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them had some withdrawal symptoms. Take a hard drug "in moderation" is not an easy thing to do, it has certain risks associated with it and the correlation with violent (domestic and otherwise) behavior is still present.

    How large of a percentage of people do you think drink in moderation?
     
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  20. PrinceOfPain Silver Belt

    PrinceOfPain
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    I'm not arguing with any of that (though, I'd like a look at the study that makes that closing claim). Hell, I traded alcohol for weed as my end-of-day edge-duller, because it's very apparent that it's not as bad for me as booze.
    All I am saying is that legally available substances causing more widespread harm than illegal substances is not surprising.

    If you compared 5 alcoholics to 5 heroin addicts, which group's behaviour would be more damaging to themselves and others? And which group would be likely to have fewer individuals surviving to old age?
     
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