Alcohol and tobacco are by far the biggest threat to human welfare of all addictive drugs

[Ruprecht]

Interesting reflections!

I wholeheartedly agree that it's interesting to compare to similar nations like Denmark. I have read that Danish people drinks the most alcohol in the EU. But only measuring consumption doesn't paint the whole picture. Perhaps Danish people consume alcohol more often but less at each time compared to Swedes?

As for tobacco, I think Sweden has the fewest smokers in the EU and I think that success can be contributed to taxation and proper information as well as not glamorizing smoking in media. That is the model I think we should enact when it comes to illegal drugs as well.

Do people still use snus in Sweden?

 

[brothir]

Do people still use snus in Sweden?

Very popular in Norway, at least.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Do people still use snus in Sweden?

In 2016, 13% of the population used snus on a daily basis!

The horror, I can't believe how people feel comfortable using snus.

 

[Ruprecht]

In 2016, 13% of the population used snus on a daily basis!

The horror, I can't believe how people feel comfortable using snus.

Percentage of the adult population that smokes is 14.2% here (as of 2016, total of both weekly and daily smokers).
Smokeless tobacco products are illegal to sell.
Did smokers switch to using snus, or is it a completely different group?

 

[brothir]

Did smokers switch to using snus, or is it a completely different group?

My impression is that 9/10 stayed, and 1/10 switched, but snus now dominates cigarettes as the thing young people start doing. So there is a very clear generational gap already.

 

[Son of Jamin]

Smoking is 14.2% here (as of 2016 total of both weekly and daily smokers).
Smokeless tobacco products are illegal to sell.
Did smokers switch to using snus, or is it a completely different group?

Smoking on a daily basis in Sweden is 8,8%, compared to the 50's when 50% of men and 9% of women smoked on a daily basis.

According to the government agency; The National Board of Health and Welfare, snus has become an alternative for smoking and lead to fewer smokers. According to the statistics, for every person that use snus and begins to smoke, four smokers quit smoking and use snus instead.

Media has for a long time pushed the narrative that using snus is much better than smoking (which it is) but if I put on my tinfoil hat, I believe that the influential company Swedish Match has helped to shape that very narrative in order to boost sales of snus.

 

[mrbaapt]

Drinking in moderation is less harmful than drugs and can even be healthy.

Alcohol is a drug and it has detrimental effects on the liver and brain even in moderation. Cannabis has no harmful effects at all and not a single death in thousands of years of usage.

 

[brothir]

The horror, I can't believe how people feel comfortable using snus.

It really is fucking disgusting. One time a guy I stood right next to, like half a meter distance, just spat out what appeared to be half a cup of stinking black sludge, with plenty of coughing and hacking to go along with it.

I genuinely had to cover my mouth with one hand and run away to not vomit. Cigarettes are a nuisance, but snus is viscerally repulsive on a whole 'nother level.

 

[Son of Jamin]

It really is fucking disgusting. One time a guy I stood right next to, like half a meter distance, just spat out what appeared to be half a cup of stinking black sludge, with plenty of coughing and hacking to go along with it.

I genuinely had to cover my mouth with one hand and run away to not vomit. Cigarettes are a nuisance, but snus is viscerally repulsive on a whole 'nother level.

Yeah, it's horrid and don't get me started on how ugly those round markings on pants from the "snuffbox"...

 

[mrbaapt]

Few drinks once in a while. That's less harmful than consuming any amount of most drugs.

Less harmful than Cocaine or Heroin yes, Cannabis no. Drugs are not ubiquitous.

And I wouldn't include caffeine as a drug. But too much can be bad.

Why not? Caffeine is more dangerous than Cannabis. There are multiple deaths attributed to caffeine every year.

 

[trolldum]

Well, I said that smoking some pot is not that bad.

 

[mrbaapt]

Well, I said that smoking some pot is not that bad.

It's actually beneficial.

 

[Son of Jamin]

I found this information about ecstasy quite interesting:

Is MDMA really a dangerous drug?
While all drug use, recreational or otherwise, can cause harm, pure MDMA is one of the least dangerous drugs known. Indeed, it is much less dangerous than drugs like alcohol, tobacco or cannabis. MDMA is rarely habit-forming. The vast majority of people only take MDMA in the context of dancing or partying. MDMA fatalities do occur but are extremely rare in comparison with the hundreds of thousands of doses taken every year in Australia. Professor David Nutt, a distinguished expert, was sacked from an official UK position for estimating in 2009 that the risk of death was greater from horse riding than from taking ecstasy.

Why don’t we regulate MDMA manufacture and distribute it in nightclubs and dance festivals under close supervision?
Good question. Professor David Penington, former vice chancellor of Melbourne University, recommended regulating MDMA in 2012.

On the one hand, authorities justify their (ineffective) crackdowns on ecstasy by arguing that because MDMA is manufactured and distributed by the black market it must be terribly dangerous. On the other hand, when confronted with advocacy to regulate MDMA manufacture and distribution, the same authorities tie themselves in knots trying to argue all drugs (except alcohol and tobacco) are too dangerous to even consider regulating any new drugs.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ly-that-dangerous-all-your-questions-answered

It just goes to show that the current criminalization of certain drugs is counterintuitive and counterproductive.

 

[sweede]

Interesting reflections!

I wholeheartedly agree that it's interesting to compare to similar nations like Denmark. I have read that Danish people drinks the most alcohol in the EU. But only measuring consumption doesn't paint the whole picture. Perhaps Danish people consume alcohol more often but less at each time compared to Swedes?

As for tobacco, I think Sweden has the fewest smokers in the EU and I think that success can be contributed to taxation and proper information as well as not glamorizing smoking in media. That is the model I think we should enact when it comes to illegal drugs as well.

You are so spot on with the tobacco and how Sweden handle it. Buuuut, we can do better!

As for Denmark, they have another approach when it comes to alcohol and weed. They have this fight to the death culture if the state are going to poking its nose into private matters that are apart of being danish. Namely the right to hygge( danish word for chill, enjoy, be nice, be social. It´s is a beautiful word and means alot of things. Very, very Danish)

In Sweden we don´t drink alcohol while at work, while in Denmark it´s very ordinary to take a bajer(beer) in broad day light and at work. But that´s it. They drink because it taste good and they are very proud of their brands Tuborg and Carlsberg. And that is one thing Denmark make fun of Sweden with. Our drinking habits and apparent lack of willpower to stop when the body have had enough. Countless of Swedish men and women has sailed Helsinborg-Helsingör to embarrass them self.

 

[Phr3121]

Perhaps we should wage war on tobacco and alcohol instead of illegal drugs...

It is amazing how people smoked, are smoking, and will probably continue to smoke. Look at all the 'shit' people inhale when they smoke. The tobacco company does not tell you this. Arsenic is a poison and Polonium 210 is a highly toxic radioactive element. All absorbed by the tobacco plant from the ground.

Polonium 210: The 13th conversion on the decay chain of Uranium 238. The radioisotope used to kill Arafat and Alexander Litvinenko (defected Russian spy) is extraordinarily toxic even in quantities less than a billionth of a gram. The LD50 of this compound is not a property of its chemistry. While other toxic metals such as mercury and arsenic kill through the interaction of the metal with the body, polonium kills by emitting radiation which shreds sensitive biomolecules, such as DNA, and kills cells. Its half-life – the time taken for half of the ingested material to decay – is about a month, leading to a slow death by radiation poisoning.

 

[Phr3121]

My favorite element, Uranium-238. You can dig it from the ground yourself here in the U.S. Legal to own, sell, and buy. From it you can get bomb grade U-235 and Plutonium-239 (manmade) - not legal to make, own, sell, or buy. It is a go to jail for life card. Worst than having or selling crack cocaine. Polonium 210 found in tobacco is the 13th decay conversion of Uranium. The 14th and final element is Lead. I have 37 grams of U-238 in my elements collection.

This is the decay series of Uranium-238. 14 elements. From solid to gas back to solid. Some have a half-life of 4.5 billion years and other only 2 minutes in the decay process. Fascinating. Imagine if gold did this...