Aj vs Francis different angle

[dipstickjimmy]

“Cans” are what make up the entire UFC roster, a bunch of non dynamic “strikers” who roll around on the ground and put everyone watching to sleep. Who cares who even wins honestly?

Boxing fans aren’t retards, we know the deal, and we hardly pay attn to titles or the alphabets. Just a bunch of trinket negotiating props. We as fans and in some cases practitioners of boxing know what we like and when we see two fighters we like showing us they can gradually get even better we say, “hey they are exciting and killers, they should fight!”

In MMA the promotions hand you a card and say “Damn look at this INSANE and SICK card featuring “ranked fighters” and title matches, this is gonna be so exciting dudes!!! You want this fight!” And y’all go “wow!!! Thankyou Dana for giving us the fights we want to see!!!”

And then you watch a bunch of cans do boring shit that never gets exciting. Even college wrestling is more exciting.

Okay, okay, all jk aside, here’s the scoop. Either you like boxing or you don’t! If you don’t, then don’t bother trying to figure it out, because it’s not worth learning about if you don’t give a fuck in the first place. Like trying to force yourself to be a surgeon when blood makes you vomit.

Like I certainly don’t force myself to watch MMA because I know I’m just gonna get mad at the tv again

Wilder had a lot of WBC title defenses but his reign was extremely weak. All you have to do is count the champs, former champs, and contenders he fought. Look for fighters that were actually rated at the time in the independent rankings (ieg., Ring Magazine, TBRB, etc).

Sanctioning body rankings are different. We see guys get title shots all the time but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're any good. The WBA, WBC, IBF & WBO rankings mean squat. They're only used to determine a mandatory challenger for each of those sanctioning bodies.

But seriously WHAT DEFINES A CAN in boxing? I can't understand how this is so hard for boxing guys to define.
@Kovalev's "Man Bag" you said "All you have to do is count the champs, former champs, and contenders he fought." wasn't every fighter he defended against a contender? Literally getting to a title fight in one of the major 4 sanctioning bodies makes you a contender. Blabbing on about AJ fought better guys or his contenders > your contenders reeks of "My Dad can beat up your Dad" silliness. Maybe AJ's competition was more difficult then Wilder's but that is certainly subjective. How can 10 defenses of a major title against guys with 25 fights on average and less than 2 losses average be a bunch of CANS. Is a Can any fighter who you don't like? Is it anyone with more then 2 losses? AJ has 3 losses so is he a can?

Seriously WTF is the definition of a CAN in boxing? In MMA Jay Ellis is certainly a can with a 16-109 record. What is the line in boxing?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

But seriously WHAT DEFINES A CAN in boxing? I can't understand how this is so hard for boxing guys to define.
@Kovalev's "Man Bag" you said "All you have to do is count the champs, former champs, and contenders he fought." wasn't every fighter he defended against a contender? Literally getting to a title fight in one of the major 4 sanctioning bodies makes you a contender. Blabbing on about AJ fought better guys or his contenders > your contenders reeks of "My Dad can beat up your Dad" silliness. Maybe AJ's competition was more difficult then Wilder's but that is certainly subjective. How can 10 defenses of a major title against guys with 25 fights on average and less than 2 losses average be a bunch of CANS. Is a Can any fighter who you don't like? Is it anyone with more then 2 losses? AJ has 3 losses so is he a can?

Seriously WTF is the definition of a CAN in boxing? In MMA Jay Ellis is certainly a can with a 16-109 record. What is the line in boxing?

Dude you're having a meltdown over this lol. No, getting a title shot from one of the sanctioning bodies doesn't necessarily make you a legitimate contender. Their rankings are only for their specific organization (and there's 4 of them total). They also don't rank champions. Just what they consider "contenders" which you only need to beat regional level guys to climb up their rankings.

Cans are fighters that never had a chance to win. No hopers. Cab drivers. Journeymen. Call them what you like. There's no debate, Joshua has beaten much higher quality opposition than Wilder and Fury for that matter. Most rankings are subjective but we also have computerized rankings like BoxRec's that are objective. An algorithm determines their rating.

Anyway, believe whatever you like. Just don't be surprised when fans that actually follow boxing closely, like us, all tell you the same thing.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

Dude you're having a meltdown over this lol. No, getting a title shot from one of the sanctioning bodies doesn't necessarily make you a legitimate contender. Their rankings are only for their specific organization (and there's 4 of them total). They also don't rank champions. Just what they consider "contenders" which you only need to beat regional level guys to climb up their rankings.

Cans are fighters that never had a chance to win. No hopers. Cab drivers. Journeymen. Call them what you like. There's no debate, Joshua has beaten much higher quality opposition than Wilder and Fury for that matter. Most rankings are subjective but we also have computerized rankings like BoxRec's that are objective. An algorithm determines their rating.

Anyway, believe whatever you like. Just don't be surprised when fans that actually follow boxing closely, like us, all tell you the same thing.

You still haven't defined a Can. No hope of winning??? So how is a record of 20 plus wins mean no hope of winning? No hope of winning what??? Literally dancing around the question like Floyd Mayweather. Is anyone who is not the Undisputed HW champion a can? Give a coherent definition.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

But seriously WHAT DEFINES A CAN in boxing? I can't understand how this is so hard for boxing guys to define.
@Kovalev's "Man Bag" you said "All you have to do is count the champs, former champs, and contenders he fought." wasn't every fighter he defended against a contender? Literally getting to a title fight in one of the major 4 sanctioning bodies makes you a contender. Blabbing on about AJ fought better guys or his contenders > your contenders reeks of "My Dad can beat up your Dad" silliness. Maybe AJ's competition was more difficult then Wilder's but that is certainly subjective. How can 10 defenses of a major title against guys with 25 fights on average and less than 2 losses average be a bunch of CANS. Is a Can any fighter who you don't like? Is it anyone with more then 2 losses? AJ has 3 losses so is he a can?

Seriously WTF is the definition of a CAN in boxing? In MMA Jay Ellis is certainly a can with a 16-109 record. What is the line in boxing?

I guess in boxing the fans don’t necessarily rate the guy based on “defending the title”. Like Inoue has dominated every division he’s been in. And he always comes to fight so it’s exciting to see him KO just about anyone. But for most of his career we really just couldn’t rate who he was because he was running through guys who clearly didn’t belong with him and the lighter weights don’t get the proper coverage. Honestly it was like he was turning #1s and #2s in divisions into cans and fans were happy but they were not satisfied. The fight we wanted to see was gonna be divisions up and against someone fans decided had enough of a pulse. I think Fulton was the guy who really came off as the big signature win so far in Inoue’s career.

Boxing is full of fighters who are trying to be a brand themselves. They kinda gotta be like pro wrestlers and do business smart and talk the game and sell the fight but it’s prize fighting. Ultimately once they get in peoples minds they wanna secure a BIG scalp and the big scalps fans accept when they want a fighter to shit or get of the pot… that’s what is meant by “not a can”

Cans in boxing are guys who wilt under pressure, lack cardio, incomplete, one legged Jose Benavidez, cans make concessions because they blew the last big one and cans usually have been protected for a while and that’s why they have a good record. They are brought in to lose. If you followed the sport just allowing yourself to watch the various events, you’d pick up pretty quickly. Just watch the fights and get sucked in really.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You still haven't defined a Can. No hope of winning??? So how is a record of 20 plus wins mean no hope of winning? No hope of winning what??? Literally dancing around the question like Floyd Mayweather. Is anyone who is not the Undisputed HW champion a can? Give a coherent definition.

I already defined what a can is. Guys that really have no business fighting for world titles in the first place. Some of these fighters getting title shots we've never even heard of. Wladimir Klitschko had more title defenses than Wilder and an overall higher level of opposition. Yet his title reigns were considered weak. Part of that is because the modern heavyweight era is in fact a weak one.

In professional boxing a fighter's record can be largely manufactured. They can be protected for years. You've already acknowledged that padding exists. Fluffed up records. Some fighters have more of it on their record than others. This isn't difficult to understand. Name Wilder's best win and then a couple of his next best wins. We can compare those wins to Joshua's.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I already defined what a can is. Guys that really have no business fighting for world titles in the first place. Some of these fighters getting title shots we've never even heard of. Wladimir Klitschko had more title defenses than Wilder and an overall higher level of opposition. Yet his title reigns were considered weak. Part of that is because the modern heavyweight era is in fact a weak one.

In professional boxing a fighter's record can be largely manufactured. They can be protected for years. You've already acknowledged that padding exists. Fluffed up records. Some fighters have more of it on their record than others. This isn't difficult to understand. Name Wilder's best win and then a couple of his next best wins. We can compare those wins to Joshua's.

No you actually never defined that. This is the first time you have stated "Guys that really have no business fighting for world titles in the first place". Before you said "No hope of winning" You never said no hope of winning what??? Also didn't you say Bermane Stiverne being on the list of WIlder's defenses was a joke? Making him a Can I would have to assume? But yet he was in fact the WBC champion. How can someone who won a world title fight be someone who has no business being in a world title fight and has no hope of winning a world title fight.

Thanks for your definition but I think it is silly. A little too dismissive of everyone. A can can't simply be one who hasn't won a world title. If AJ, Usyk and Fury are to be considered Elite they have to beat increasingly better competition. Cans would be them fighting the types of fighter they fought in their first fights. Or retired MMA fighters 15-20 years older then themselves. Not every single non Elite fighter is a Can.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

No you actually never defined that. This is the first time you have stated "Guys that really have no business fighting for world titles in the first place". Before you said "No hope of winning" You never said no hope of winning what??? Also didn't you say Bermane Stiverne being on the list of WIlder's defenses was a joke? Making him a Can I would have to assume? But yet he was in fact the WBC champion. How can someone who won a world title fight be someone who has no business being in a world title fight and has no hope of winning a world title fight.

Thanks for your definition but I think it is silly. A little too dismissive of everyone. A can can't simply be one who hasn't won a world title. If AJ, Usyk and Fury are to be considered Elite they have to beat increasingly better competition. Cans would be them fighting the types of fighter they fought in their first fights. Or retired MMA fighters 15-20 years older then themselves. Not every single non Elite fighter is a Can.

I never called Stiverne a can. In fact, I don't remember ever calling anyone a can in this thread. However, Stiverne wasn't exactly a notable titleholder and on paper that's Wilder's best win. After that it's either Liakhovich, who also wasn't notable, or Ortiz. You can also look at the combined number of wins & losses that Wilder's opponents had and compare those numbers to Joshua's.

You say I'm dismissive but you're quite argumentative for a guy that doesn't really follow boxing.

 

[dipstickjimmy]

I never called Stiverne a can. In fact, I don't remember ever calling anyone a can in this thread. However, Stiverne wasn't exactly a notable titleholder and on paper that's Wilder's best win. After that it's either Liakhovich, who also wasn't notable, or Ortiz. You can also look at the combined number of wins & losses that Wilder's opponents had and compare those numbers to Joshua's.

You say I'm dismissive but you're quite argumentative for a guy that doesn't really follow boxing.

Sorry you are right. It was this guy who first mentioned him

When you have to list Stiverne as a top 5 win you know your in trouble so I don’t have to get into it much . Lol

You asked why Ngannou was a disgrace for Fury well it’s common sense. Fury was holding a WBC belt and it wasn’t even a title fight , Ngannou was not sanctioned as a ranked fighter bc he had no pro record . If Joshua fought him as a unified champion he was he’d be crucified by the entire boxing community far worse then what Fury got . <45>

Joshua gets the winner of that fight so you don’t really make any sense he’s not out of the running .

Surprisingly it is hard to keep track of the 3-4 guys jumping in to the conversation and none of them would seem to be able to give a definition of what a Can is. In MMA people throw around Journeyman and Gatekeeper terms with no consistency or accuracy. Anyone with more then 2 losses gets called a Journeyman and if you are the 2nd best in a division you are a gatekeeper. Seems like in Boxing anyone who isn't Undefeated and Undisputed champion is labelled a can. Unless they were beaten by your favourite fighter and they they are a legit win.