30 - 06 VS. 7.62 x 51mm NATO.

[RerouteToRemain]

The Phillipines is my favorite country....to visit. I'm not sure how id feel about living there.

After reading about some of the shit going on over there for the past few weeks I'm not sure I'd go there at all.

 

[bushman505]

After reading about some of the shit going on over there for the past few weeks I'm not sure I'd go there at all.

Yeah that president is batshit crazy. I went there about a year and a half ago so missed the craziness.

Cool country, great diving and great food. Nice beaches and it's cheap.

 

[Gregolian]

ReRoute pretty much summed it up as far as ballistic capability and ease of use.

I'd like to add, since I recently did a shitload of research into the caliber of rifles I was going to buy, and three of biggest issues I noticed were 30-06 rifles are generally bolt-action and not semi-auto, much more expensive than 7.62 rifles, and the 30-06 ammo is also much more expensive. (Around $1.30 a round for the cheap brands)

And as ReRoute specifically said, unless you're counting on making very long range shots (700+ meters), its almost always overkill. And since you don't own a gun, this caliber isn't the best for those who are new to shooting.

I would make one argument.

IF, you are going to only own ONE rifle, the .308 isn't bad but I was watching a vid on how to choose a cartridge for elk hunting and the guy said (I paraphrase) "there is nothing wrong with .308 Win, however... 30-06 though it's an old cartridge, has killed something that walks or crawls on EVERY continent on this Earth".

If you are only ever going to own ONE rifle in ONE caliber I'd argue get the 30-06. It doesn't kick as bad ass the entry level Magnum rounds (.300 WinMag) but naturally isn't as soft as a .308 in comparison. You can take everything from small game like coyotes at range, to black/white tail deer, mule deer, mountain goats, elk, caribou, reindeer at significant ranges. I'm not sure on this as I haven't tested it myself or read into it much but when I got my screw on dial system for my Leupold VX-2 one of the questions was "how far out do you want to shoot?" and I basically asked "what's the 30-06's max range for lethality" and the response was essentially, shot placement is what matters but generally much past 600 yards the only people getting killshots are Marine Scout Snipers and Navy SEAL snipers and their European counterparts.

The guy I was speaking to said you could legally and ethically hunt ALL the antlered animals in the world (from pronghorn on up to moose) depending on range and if you were a damn good shot you could take it bear hunting though most bear hunters and dangerous game/safari hunters use the big .475 H&H style rounds for the extra mass of the projectile.

Another slight anecdotal story. When I picked up my Weatherby in 30-06 I went to the store I USUALLY go to for my AR stuff. Guy opens the box to get the serial number and he's MAYBE 30 at most and lost his leg below the knee (right leg) while he was serving in the Big Red 1 in Iraq or Afghanistan. He whistles and goes "30-06, so nice to see someone under the age of 50 buying a gun in this caliber". Naturally I ask him why he says this and basically he was like "Everyone is all about that 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester because the tacticool crowd is all hung up on it with the M1A and AR-10. 30-06 is a better all around round IMO. It shoots flatter, shoots longer with lethal capability. .308 is a flavor of the month thing and the ammunition retailers know this so they have pushed it a ton and kept the price lower than it's century old cousin that is the father of all 30 calibers that stemmed from the grandfather round that was .300 Savage".

I was pretty well stunned, then I asked a ton of other friends that served from Marines, to Navy, to even Chair Force guys and they all said the same thing. NONE of them really hate the .308 but they would all prefer the 30-06 and my former coworker at a bar I bounced at summed it up great and simple like a typical Marine. "Greg, I was MARSOC, we had to haul EVERYTHING in we wanted to use and haul it all back out. .308 is fine.... except it has ALL the weight and size limitations in your bag that the 30-06 has with less range... it's not worth it in a combat situation. You want a round that you can kill any animal smaller than a rhino, hippo, or elephant and you want 100 years worth of man killing capabilities to back it up... get 30-06"

 

[Gregolian]

Found the video:


Another vid of them talking, briefly, about comparing 30-06 to the .308

 

[Gregolian]

Kind of long but they get deeper into all the 30 cals out there:

 

[Gregolian]

One final post. I say all that and own a 30-06 yet am in the process of building an AR-10 or .308 AR... HOWEVER, if I could have been able to build it in 30-06, I would have.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I would make one argument.

IF, you are going to only own ONE rifle, the .308 isn't bad but I was watching a vid on how to choose a cartridge for elk hunting and the guy said (I paraphrase) "there is nothing wrong with .308 Win, however... 30-06 though it's an old cartridge, has killed something that walks or crawls on EVERY continent on this Earth".

If you are only ever going to own ONE rifle in ONE caliber I'd argue get the 30-06. It doesn't kick as bad ass the entry level Magnum rounds (.300 WinMag) but naturally isn't as soft as a .308 in comparison. You can take everything from small game like coyotes at range, to black/white tail deer, mule deer, mountain goats, elk, caribou, reindeer at significant ranges. I'm not sure on this as I haven't tested it myself or read into it much but when I got my screw on dial system for my Leupold VX-2 one of the questions was "how far out do you want to shoot?" and I basically asked "what's the 30-06's max range for lethality" and the response was essentially, shot placement is what matters but generally much past 600 yards the only people getting killshots are Marine Scout Snipers and Navy SEAL snipers and their European counterparts.

The guy I was speaking to said you could legally and ethically hunt ALL the antlered animals in the world (from pronghorn on up to moose) depending on range and if you were a damn good shot you could take it bear hunting though most bear hunters and dangerous game/safari hunters use the big .475 H&H style rounds for the extra mass of the projectile.

Another slight anecdotal story. When I picked up my Weatherby in 30-06 I went to the store I USUALLY go to for my AR stuff. Guy opens the box to get the serial number and he's MAYBE 30 at most and lost his leg below the knee (right leg) while he was serving in the Big Red 1 in Iraq or Afghanistan. He whistles and goes "30-06, so nice to see someone under the age of 50 buying a gun in this caliber". Naturally I ask him why he says this and basically he was like "Everyone is all about that 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester because the tacticool crowd is all hung up on it with the M1A and AR-10. 30-06 is a better all around round IMO. It shoots flatter, shoots longer with lethal capability. .308 is a flavor of the month thing and the ammunition retailers know this so they have pushed it a ton and kept the price lower than it's century old cousin that is the father of all 30 calibers that stemmed from the grandfather round that was .300 Savage".

I was pretty well stunned, then I asked a ton of other friends that served from Marines, to Navy, to even Chair Force guys and they all said the same thing. NONE of them really hate the .308 but they would all prefer the 30-06 and my former coworker at a bar I bounced at summed it up great and simple like a typical Marine. "Greg, I was MARSOC, we had to haul EVERYTHING in we wanted to use and haul it all back out. .308 is fine.... except it has ALL the weight and size limitations in your bag that the 30-06 has with less range... it's not worth it in a combat situation. You want a round that you can kill any animal smaller than a rhino, hippo, or elephant and you want 100 years worth of man killing capabilities to back it up... get 30-06"

Planning on killing an elephant anytime soon?

 

[Gregolian]

Planning on killing an elephant anytime soon?

No but i wouldn't mind trying goat/sheep and you need a flatter at range gun for that.

 

[RerouteToRemain]

One final post. I say all that and own a 30-06 yet am in the process of building an AR-10 or .308 AR... HOWEVER, if I could have been able to build it in 30-06, I would have.

Pretty easy to see why people go with .308. I probably wouldn't buy a .30-06. Short action, definitely less weight, less recoil, better bullet selection, cheaper, with modern powders you are talking very minimal differences in fps, fpe, drop/windage. I feel like if you are going to go long action there are a lot of options.

Here are some ballistics stats. I did .308, .30-06 and 300wm in the same bullet weight.

Hornady .308 165gr sst superformance

Velocit(fps)/Energy(ft-lbs) dists

Muzzle
2840/2955

100
2635/2544

200
2439/2180

300
2252/1858

400
2079/1574

500
1902/1325

Distance(yrds)
Trajectory (in)
Muzzle
-1.50

100
1.80

200
0.00

300
-7.60

400
-22.10

500
-44.70

Hornady .30-06 165gr sst superformance

Velocity(fps)/Energy(ft-lbs)

Muzzle
2960/3209

100
2750/2769

200
2549/2380

300
2357/2034

400
2173/1729

500
1997/1461

Distance(yrds)
Trajectory (in)
Muzzle
-1.50

100
1.60

200
0.00

300
-6.90

400
-20.10

500
-40.70

Hornady. 300WM 165 gr gmx superformance

Velocity(fps)/Energy(ft-lbs)
Muzzle
3260/3893

100
3035/3373

200
2821/2915

300
2617/2505

400
2422/2148

500
2235/1830

Distance(yrds)
Trajectory (in)
Muzzle
-1.50

100
1.10

200
0.00

300
-5.50

400
-16.10

500
-32.70

For the hell of it here are some other long action competitors.

Hornady .270 140gr sst superformance


Velocity(fps)/Energy(ft-lbs)
Muzzle
3090/2968

100
2894/2603

200
2706/2276

300
2526/1983

400
2353/1721

500
2187/1487

Distance(yrds)
Trajectory (in)
Muzzle
-1.50

100
1.30

200
0.00

300
-6.10

400
-17.60

500
-35.40

Hornady 7mm rem 162gr sst superformance


Velocity(fps)/Energy(ft-lbs)
Muzzle
3030/3302

100
2855/2933

200
2688/2598

300
2525/2295

400
2370/2020

500
2219/1772

Distance(yrds)
Trajectory (in)
Muzzle
-1.50

100
1.40

200
0.00

300
-6.20

400
-17.90

500
-35.70

The .30-06's advantage is the great performance with the 180gr for larger animals. The 140gr .270 still has about the same fpe as it at 500 yards though. Anyway back to .308 there is only a couple animals past a certain distance that can tell the difference between it and .30-06 with good ammo. I don't dislike .30-06 I just think there are a lot more options and if you plan on owning more than just 1 hunting rifle it doesn't seem as useful if you have .270 and .300wm. If you know what you're going for and approximate distances both of those could do a better job with a lot less drop imo.

 

[bushman505]

I like both the 308 and the 30-06 and they both have advantages. As was pointed out earlier, the 30-06 does well with the 180g bullets which I like because i can fly in with some heavier stuff and some lighter stuff which gives me a little bit more flexibility. For moose and caribou innuch prefer the 180g, those are tough animals that don't die easily.

If you are truly building a light weight. Oh tain rifle a short action makes more sense because there is less material in the action. I like light mountain rifles but thianone honestly dosent matter for me, I'm not to small, I'm around 200-210 lbs so 3-5oz on a rifle doesn't matter too much to me, so I still go with 30-06.

For sheep or mountain goats it dosent matter if you use a 308 or a 30-06, I actually use a 270 for those things because it seems to shoot flatter, with sheep the most important thing (and with all hinting) is angood bullet that will get the job done quickly because if you wound a sheep you probably aren't getting a second shot at it. They are usually 300-500yards away and can move on that crazy steep terrain extremely fast, you just aren't makig a good follow up shot.

270 is a classic, I've taken elk, deer, sheep, and even the first moose i shot was with a 270. For many years all I had was a Remington 700 in 270 and I found if I did my part it worked well.

I like the 30-06 better than the 308 in a hunting rifle but for recreational shooting I'd probably take the 308 any day because of the availability of match grade ammo.

I know lots of hunters who lean to the 30-06 rather than the 308. I'll also mention ammo availability, it wont matter in a city when you can just swing into a store but go out to bush communities and somebody will have 30-06 they will trade with you. I've seen 30-06 ammo in Mongolia and Russia and evennin South Africa.

 

[ShinkanPo]

The Phillipines is my favorite country....to visit. I'm not sure how id feel about living there.

If you love a shitier version of Venezuela and would like to see Cambodia 2.0 the Philippines will great for that in a matter of months.

Its funny I am asking about type of ammos too.


There are some anti muslim militia in the south Philippines they still use WW2 era garands left overs I wonder where they get the 30 - 06s for that.

 

[ShinkanPo]

Yeah that president is batshit crazy. I went there about a year and a half ago so missed the craziness.

Cool country, great diving and great food. Nice beaches and it's cheap.

+cheap hookers and if you are lucky you get to be beheaded by Moslem extremists or if you love the 1970s you can fight Communists with AK47s in the mountains.

 

[bushman505]

+cheap hookers and if you are lucky you get to be beheaded by Moslem extremists or if you love the 1970s you can fight Communists with AK47s in the mountains.

Yeah it's unfortunate that things are going that way there because it really is a beautiful country. I went to palawan and did a bunch of ww2 wreck diving and then went to boracay and did a bunch of kite boarding.

I also drank way too much there, I'm not a huge drinker but in the phillipines it's like the gods are daring you to kill your self with booze....tanduay rum....I actually passed out and slept through my massag a few times.

As for the cheap hookers, I'm married so I can't partake hahah.

Also I'd imagine lots of that 30-06 ammo you are talking about is leftover surplus from ww2 or it's being reloaded there.

 

[Gregolian]

@bushman505, in my dad's day and age in Minnesota you could find 30-06, .22, .44mag, .45 ACP, and 12/20 gauge stuff in gas stations IN Minneapolis.

You go anywhere that is "gun friendly" and almost everyone will have a 30-06 in their family someplace.

 

[bushman505]

@bushman505, in my dad's day and age in Minnesota you could find 30-06, .22, .44mag, .45 ACP, and 12/20 gauge stuff in gas stations IN Minneapolis.

You go anywhere that is "gun friendly" and almost everyone will have a 30-06 in their family someplace.

Yeah my dad grew up in Michigan, you could buy ammo at grocery stores, gas stations, barber shops....I wish it was still like that, pretty much everywhere now is just at sporting goods stores.

 

[bushman505]

I would make one argument.

IF, you are going to only own ONE rifle, the .308 isn't bad but I was watching a vid on how to choose a cartridge for elk hunting and the guy said (I paraphrase) "there is nothing wrong with .308 Win, however... 30-06 though it's an old cartridge, has killed something that walks or crawls on EVERY continent on this Earth".

If you are only ever going to own ONE rifle in ONE caliber I'd argue get the 30-06. It doesn't kick as bad ass the entry level Magnum rounds (.300 WinMag) but naturally isn't as soft as a .308 in comparison. You can take everything from small game like coyotes at range, to black/white tail deer, mule deer, mountain goats, elk, caribou, reindeer at significant ranges. I'm not sure on this as I haven't tested it myself or read into it much but when I got my screw on dial system for my Leupold VX-2 one of the questions was "how far out do you want to shoot?" and I basically asked "what's the 30-06's max range for lethality" and the response was essentially, shot placement is what matters but generally much past 600 yards the only people getting killshots are Marine Scout Snipers and Navy SEAL snipers and their European counterparts.

The guy I was speaking to said you could legally and ethically hunt ALL the antlered animals in the world (from pronghorn on up to moose) depending on range and if you were a damn good shot you could take it bear hunting though most bear hunters and dangerous game/safari hunters use the big .475 H&H style rounds for the extra mass of the projectile.

Another slight anecdotal story. When I picked up my Weatherby in 30-06 I went to the store I USUALLY go to for my AR stuff. Guy opens the box to get the serial number and he's MAYBE 30 at most and lost his leg below the knee (right leg) while he was serving in the Big Red 1 in Iraq or Afghanistan. He whistles and goes "30-06, so nice to see someone under the age of 50 buying a gun in this caliber". Naturally I ask him why he says this and basically he was like "Everyone is all about that 7.62x51 or .308 Winchester because the tacticool crowd is all hung up on it with the M1A and AR-10. 30-06 is a better all around round IMO. It shoots flatter, shoots longer with lethal capability. .308 is a flavor of the month thing and the ammunition retailers know this so they have pushed it a ton and kept the price lower than it's century old cousin that is the father of all 30 calibers that stemmed from the grandfather round that was .300 Savage".

I was pretty well stunned, then I asked a ton of other friends that served from Marines, to Navy, to even Chair Force guys and they all said the same thing. NONE of them really hate the .308 but they would all prefer the 30-06 and my former coworker at a bar I bounced at summed it up great and simple like a typical Marine. "Greg, I was MARSOC, we had to haul EVERYTHING in we wanted to use and haul it all back out. .308 is fine.... except it has ALL the weight and size limitations in your bag that the 30-06 has with less range... it's not worth it in a combat situation. You want a round that you can kill any animal smaller than a rhino, hippo, or elephant and you want 100 years worth of man killing capabilities to back it up... get 30-06"

I think you could own a 30-06 and a 375hh and between the 2 have everything you would ever need for big game hunting. Add a 22-250 or something for varmints and small game if you wanted.

 

[IdahoCBR]

One final post. I say all that and own a 30-06 yet am in the process of building an AR-10 or .308 AR... HOWEVER, if I could have been able to build it in 30-06, I would have.

What would be its purpose? If you want more power/energy than the .308, look into the .338 Federal. It has some interesting numbers but drops hard past 400 yards

 

[bushman505]

What would be its purpose? If you want more power/energy than the .308, look into the .338 Federal. It has some interesting numbers but drops hard past 400 yards

I'd personally avoid 338 federal. If going for a 338, I'd stick with the 338 win mag. I'm not a big fan of federal or ruger etc, etc cartridges because they can be hard to find and are typically made by only one manufacturer.

The only propriety cartridges I like are weatherby calibers but even then inlimit myself to the 257wby and 300wby. For awhile I wasnintonthe 340wby which is a supercharged 338 win mag but I moved on.

Even the 300wby im not all that into anymore when the 300 win mag is widely available. These days i like the 30-06, 375HH and the 7mm Remington mag.

While I agree that a bigger bullet is often useful for elk, I think that the 338 federal and 338 ruger are losers. I've used the 338 win mag on a few elk and it's nice.

 

[Gregolian]

What would be its purpose? If you want more power/energy than the .308, look into the .338 Federal. It has some interesting numbers but drops hard past 400 yards

Bench shooting as well as I can take it hunting and go "yeah, I killed a deer with a gun I built from parts."

 

[IdahoCBR]

I'd personally avoid 338 federal. If going for a 338, I'd stick with the 338 win mag. I'm not a big fan of federal or ruger etc, etc cartridges because they can be hard to find and are typically made by only one manufacturer.

The only propriety cartridges I like are weatherby calibers but even then inlimit myself to the 257wby and 300wby. For awhile I wasnintonthe 340wby which is a supercharged 338 win mag but I moved on.

Even the 300wby im not all that into anymore when the 300 win mag is widely available. These days i like the 30-06, 375HH and the 7mm Remington mag.

While I agree that a bigger bullet is often useful for elk, I think that the 338 federal and 338 ruger are losers. I've used the 338 win mag on a few elk and it's nice.

Granted, it doesnt have the down range oomph like the .338mag or any other "magnum" caliber does but it also doesnt have the recoil either. A 180gr bullet at 2800fps puts it right in there with the .30-06 and 7mm Rem. Not bad for a lightweight, short action rifle or in a AR-10.

.338 Federal brass isnt hard to find online. Ammo is $25-$35/box Plus, its just a necked up .308 winchester, so with a reloader, it'd be easy to make.

Bench shooting as well as I can take it hunting and go "yeah, I killed a deer with a gun I built from parts."

A .308 is just fine. Without a reloader, 338 Fed would get kinda spendy for bench shhoting. And a .308 is a damn fine deer rifle so they heavier bullet and extra energy isnt needed.