Would Rickson really have done better than Royce?

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superpunch

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Rickson was supposed to be the Gracie family god, and Royce the backup. Looking back at history though, Royce was actually a really good fighter. Not just his BJJ skills, but whatever 'it' is that the great fighters have, even if he didn't have cross training, he had 'it'. He would be a great in this era too with a modern camp.

Royce Gracie picked up 2 wins over Ken Shamrock, and a win over Dan Severn. For the life of me, I can't picture Rickson or any other Gracie picking up those wins. He took a beating of a lifetime from Kimo Leopoldo and still won. I think other Gracies would have crumbled under that pressure and picked up a loss at UFC 3.

I'm thinking that the other Gracies had better BJJ, but that Royce had 'it' for fighting and they didn't. They didn't know that at the time and lucked out choosing him because the other Gracies wouldn't have made history the way he did.

Would Rickson or some of the other Gracies really have done better than Royce did?
 
boxemm said:
Rickson tooled every black belt from his era

He was better than Royce at everything
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Roger Gracie tools them all and is the best submission grappler of all time. He blew chunks in MMA because he doesn't have 'it' for fighting. Royce had 'it' in spades. Did Rickson?
 
CTEGod said:
Bigger, stronger, faster...I'm gonna say yes.
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TheRuthlessOne said:
What about Royce vs Rickson

Any footage or stories?

Rickson is obviously the bigger person.
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Disagree. Rickson was jacked but he was a manlet. Royce was built like Nick Diaz, thin but a much bigger frame. I'd consider Royce the bigger man, and would definitely much prefer his body type in MMA competition.
 
superpunch said:
Roger Gracie tools them all and is the best submission grappler of all time. He blew chunks in MMA because he doesn't have 'it' for fighting. Royce had 'it' in spades. Did Rickson?
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Roger Gracie didn't do well in MMA because he was fighting guys who actually knew what they were doing on the ground

Prime Royce would get tooled by the worst current flyweight on the roster
 
boxemm said:
Roger Gracie didn't do well in MMA because he was fighting guys who actually knew what they were doing on the ground

Prime Royce would get tooled by the worst current flyweight on the roster
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Prime Royce in a modern camp would be a great fighter. I can't say the same about other Gracies from that time period. They just had BJJ when no else knew it but didn't appear to have 'it' for fighting. You don't pick up wins over Shamrock and Severn and take beatings like he did from Kimo Leopoldo and come back to win without real fighting talent. The Gracies accidentally picked a needle from a haystack when they chose Royce to represent them in fighting.

At worst, he'd be a smaller Big Nog with modern training. Maybe even better.
 
superpunch said:
Prime Royce in a modern camp would be great. You don't pick up wins over Shamrock and Severn and take beatings like he did from Kimo Leopoldo and come back to win without real fighting talent. The Gracies accidentally picked a needle from a haystack when they chose Royce to represent them in fighting.

At worst, he'd be a smaller Big Nog with modern training. Maybe even better.
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Most high level purple belts nowadays would have Prime Royce tapping in 2 minutes in straight BJJ, never mind a fight.
 
superpunch said:
Disagree. Rickson was jacked but he was a manlet. Royce was built like Nick Diaz, thin but a much bigger frame. I'd consider Royce the bigger man, and would definitely much prefer his body type in MMA competition.
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Early UFC was more Vale Tudo, not MMA. And yes, weighing more and carrying more muscle mass while being 5'10" instead of 6' would make Rickson bigger. Even if he wasn't by your definition, he was still stronger and faster. So say what you will but the proof is there for those with eyes.
 
I believe he was phenomenal, but my opinion is completely bias based off of what one of the greatest UFC fighters claimed, Rickson beating a known fight thrower, twice btw! And his Rogan podcast.

I don’t call bullshit, he was playing the game before the camera cared, but he may be viewed as Wilt Chamberlain with that 100 point game shit. No proof, but he’s makes it seem plausible.

a legend regardless, his true level we can never gauge, that makes him all the more legendary.
 
boxemm said:
Most high level purple belts nowadays would have Prime Royce tapping in 2 minutes in straight BJJ, never mind a fight.
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Ok.. No shit. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about actual talent that you're born with.

When I watch Rickson, I see a guy that has great BJJ and could use it beat guys from that time period. But my gut also tells me he's not that durable, so he'd whither in situations like the beatdown Kimo Leopoldo put on Royce. My instincts also tell me for some reason that he has a glass chin. He probably has a poor fighting IQ -- probably too full of pride to fight smart and adapt. Great grappler, but I just don't think he had 'it' for fighting.

Royce -- dude could get run over by a train and still keep going. Iron chin. Smart fighting IQ. And I have the feeling that he'd adapt to striking with modern training pretty well. He just has 'it'.

Put Royce Gracie in with Nick Diaz's camp or something, and he'd do really well today. He'd do well in any era. He had tons of innate fighting talent.
 
There is I spose the argument Royce was more used to fighting off of his back, would Rickson have been able to get ontop of Dan Severn?
 
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