With the Helio Gracie filter, shouldn't the Gracies know striking?

[EGarrett]

One thing I don't get about the Gracie Filter. It makes a ton of sense, but if you stick to the principle, especially street applicable, shouldn't the Gracies train more striking? And shouldn't they be fighting more under MMA rules instead of grappling only?

 

[brendan raedy]

I think that would respond that Gracie Jiu Jitsu does contain strikes, like the pisao kick to set up takedowns, kidney kicks from the guard like Royce used in the early UFCs, and strikes to open up submissions from mount and back mount.

Gracies have done plenty of NHB and MMA fights, as the Gracie in Action tapes and UFCs 1-4 will attest to.

Grappling only allows a venue to refine those skills without the ensuing trauma, especially if you are talking bare knuckle fights. Of course, from that filter, you then have to be super vigilant about not engaging in behaviors that would be punished if striking was involved.

Rener and Ryron recently posted a pic on their instagram of training in the gi with mma style gloves on.

On the combatives DVDs, they say up front that if you want to fight MMA, you should train a striking art.

Rickson recently did a podcast where he said that although he trained striking, he never lost his jiu jitsu focus. He was never going into a fight trying to out strike someone. I think that is smart, to remember where your strengths are. I think it can be hard to work so hard developing a skill set, and then no go out and use it.

 

[SAMURAI SPIRIT]

What is the Helio Gracie filter? Something you attach to the water tap and purify water so that you drink it and become a better striker?

 

[flyingnecklock]

What is the Helio Gracie filter? Something you attach to the water tap and purify water so that you drink it and become a better striker?

If it isn't a viable technique for a NHB situation, then it does not meet the Helio filter requirements.


E.g Berimbolo does not meet the Helio filter requirements.

 

[flyingnecklock]

Rickson recently did a podcast where he said that although he trained striking, he never lost his jiu jitsu focus. He was never going into a fight trying to out strike someone. I think that is smart, to remember where your strengths are. I think it can be hard to work so hard developing a skill set, and then no go out and use it.

IMO, MMA is a little bit more boring now a days then it could be and this is one of the big reasons to me.

Thank god they haven't put in the fighter uniforms. It wasn't bad enough everyone fights the same, now they want them to all look alike.

 

[lechien]

Helio filter does not apply to MMA. Only apply to the streetz and vale tudo challenges against people that do not know GJJ.

 

[flyingnecklock]

Helio filter does not apply to MMA. Only apply to the streetz and vale tudo challenges against people that do not know GJJ.

Dirty kempo?

 

[lechien]

Dirty kempo?

not sure, dirty Kempo. Do they fight under vale tudo rules?

 

[Gojujutsu]

I think that would respond that Gracie Jiu Jitsu does contain strikes, like the pisao kick to set up takedowns, kidney kicks from the guard like Royce used in the early UFCs, and strikes to open up submissions from mount and back mount.

Gracies have done plenty of NHB and MMA fights, as the Gracie in Action tapes and UFCs 1-4 will attest to.

Grappling only allows a venue to refine those skills without the ensuing trauma, especially if you are talking bare knuckle fights. Of course, from that filter, you then have to be super vigilant about not engaging in behaviors that would be punished if striking was involved.

Rener and Ryron recently posted a pic on their instagram of training in the gi with mma style gloves on.

On the combatives DVDs, they say up front that if you want to fight MMA, you should train a striking art.

Rickson recently did a podcast where he said that although he trained striking, he never lost his jiu jitsu focus. He was never going into a fight trying to out strike someone. I think that is smart, to remember where your strengths are. I think it can be hard to work so hard developing a skill set, and then no go out and use it.

This.

 

[Uchi Mata]

The Helio Gracie filter is what Ryron and Rener use to guide their thought process. For example, you might say to yourself: 'can I get gullible people to buy my DVDs and watch my videos if I teach the berimbolo?' and the answer would be no, because Rafa Mendes does the berimbolo much better than they can and has free videos. Therefore, filming a berimbolo video would not help Ryron and Rener utilize their grandfather's legacy to make money with questionable products. As such it wouldn't pass the Helio Gracie filter, which is basically 'can I make money off my grandfather's legacy with this product or service?'. So it's simple really, but not applicable to anyone who isn't a direct descendant of Helio Gracie.

And to answer TS's question directly, Helio wasn't known for his striking and as such there's little money to be made teaching Helio Gracie striking. So no, it doesn't pass the filter.

 

[jcandoitbig]

the helio gracie filter is what ryron and rener use to guide their thought process. For example, you might say to yourself: 'can i get gullible people to buy my dvds and watch my videos if i teach the berimbolo?' and the answer would be no, because rafa mendes does the berimbolo much better than they can and has free videos. Therefore, filming a berimbolo video would not help ryron and rener utilize their grandfather's legacy to make money with questionable products. As such it wouldn't pass the helio gracie filter, which is basically 'can i make money off my grandfather's legacy with this product or service?'. So it's simple really, but not applicable to anyone who isn't a direct descendant of helio gracie.

And to answer ts's question directly, helio wasn't known for his striking and as such there's little money to be made teaching helio gracie striking. So no, it doesn't pass the filter.

lol

 

[Einarr]

One thing I don't get about the Gracie Filter. It makes a ton of sense, but if you stick to the principle, especially street applicable, shouldn't the Gracies train more striking? And shouldn't they be fighting more under MMA rules instead of grappling only?

Striking as you see in MMA and Boxing really isn't realistic. Without gloves and wraps you can't go landing knockout bombs without seriously risking breaking something - the small bones in the human hand and wrist are way more fragile than the bones that make up the skull.

When boxing was fought bareknuckle matches lasted for hours, because a misplaced punch to the head could mean that your career was over. Even Mike Tyson nearly finished his boxing career prematurely by seriously fracturing his hand by pounching some nobody in a strike fight. Headhunting is pure sport - without gloves and wraps body shots and open palm strikes are all that you should be going for, which tend not to end a fight as reliably as takedown>choke.

 

[RTD1]

Honestly, I think Helio just ran out of time. Between beating up japanese judoka who outweighed him by 100 kgs, inventing leverage, and humping, there just wasn't any time left to apply the filter to striking techniques.

 

[Calibur]

The Helio Gracie filter is what Ryron and Rener use to guide their thought process. For example, you might say to yourself: 'can I get gullible people to buy my DVDs and watch my videos if I teach the berimbolo?' and the answer would be no, because Rafa Mendes does the berimbolo much better than they can and has free videos. Therefore, filming a berimbolo video would not help Ryron and Rener utilize their grandfather's legacy to make money with questionable products. As such it wouldn't pass the Helio Gracie filter, which is basically 'can I make money off my grandfather's legacy with this product or service?'. So it's simple really, but not applicable to anyone who isn't a direct descendant of Helio Gracie.

And to answer TS's question directly, Helio wasn't known for his striking and as such there's little money to be made teaching Helio Gracie striking. So no, it doesn't pass the filter.

This needs to be added to the grappling FAQ

 

[vcmmafan]

Why not add body shots, kicks, elbows and open palm strikes to BJJ?

Epic post by Uchi Mata btw

 

[andrewm2211]

The way I see it. We learn the self defense assuming that if you get in a fight with a random they will be untrained. If you do BJJ you should know a little about distance management by nature.
If you stand up with a random, manage your distance, if you punch him, it will hurt. Trained striker or no. If you end up falling over, you will have your BJJ.

That's my untested armchair opinion.

 

[JohnSouth]

Striking as you see in MMA and Boxing really isn't realistic. Without gloves and wraps you can't go landing knockout bombs without seriously risking breaking something - the small bones in the human hand and wrist are way more fragile than the bones that make up the skull.

When boxing was fought bareknuckle matches lasted for hours, because a misplaced punch to the head could mean that your career was over. Even Mike Tyson nearly finished his boxing career prematurely by seriously fracturing his hand by pounching some nobody in a strike fight. Headhunting is pure sport - without gloves and wraps body shots and open palm strikes are all that you should be going for, which tend not to end a fight as reliably as takedown>choke.

You can do it but you choose the nose instead of the chin.

As the nose breaks it will cushion things, the eye and neck are also good.

You can knock out as many people as you want with punches, the hand should not break.

I don't have heavy hands but never hurt them knocking someone down or out.

Most of the time the nose or the eye socket was broken and my hand looks like nothing happen.

 

[JohnSouth]

Self defense is dumb, that is my opinion after many fights.

It's good to know how to escape common holds but untrained bums should not get past your striking unless you never train it. An attacker should not get within two feet of you with an aggressive attitude without your fist going through his face or stomach.

Good and timely striking solves most of these problems.

Every time I saw someone kick a bunch of guys' ass in a street fight it was with aggressive striking and maybe some wrestling.

These are the preferred ways for combat including judo.

Jiu-jitsu is good if you get put on your back but that's it. They are trying to market it as something it is really not.

 

[Patrick F Carey]

You can do it but you choose the nose instead of the chin.

As the nose breaks it will cushion things, the eye and neck are also good.

You can knock out as many people as you want with punches, the hand should not break.

I don't have heavy hands but never hurt them knocking someone down or out.

Most of the time the nose or the eye socket was broken and my hand looks like nothing happen.

Agreed. Some people have bitch hands though

 

[eviladam]

Why not add body shots, kicks, elbows and open palm strikes to BJJ?

Epic post by Uchi Mata btw

what makes you think that the old school guys didn't use this kind of striking to advance position and open up submissions?