Wide Stance (boxing)

[thegreenblender]

"They" say that the appropriate stance width is having legs about shoulder width apart, but I noticed certain taller fighters, especially when fighting shorter opponents, keep a seemingly wider stance.

The "getting low" thread definitely hits home for me as a taller guy, and I find I need to lower my stance to avoid punching downward and losing steam. While many say that one needs to bend their knees more to that end, when I try to maintain that hunkered position it seems like a stamina burner. Do you think a wider stance is a valid means to the same end, or what are your thoughts on a wide stance period? I noticed this in particular while watching a few fights with Kelly Pavlik, who is usually the taller man.

 

[Sinister]

There are two acceptable foot positions when it comes to width for effective leverage. Shoulder width, and slightly greater than shoulder width. Why is bending your knees a stamina burner? HOW are you bending your knees? And when you do it, how are your feet placed in terms of what part of your foot is your weight on?

You may be unnecessarily straining your legs.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

wider stance means you are less mobile...

bending your knees too much takes away your height advantage and burns energy.. better to punch down than up..

you have to get used to some things that dont seem comfortable at 1st..

in the end, i am a believer in whatever works.. some people will never have great technique but can make up for that in other areas.. its best to listen to your coach and have as good as technique as possible though..

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Why is bending your knees a stamina burner?

pretty sure he means he burns his legs out by constantly having them too bent. he is basically doing a jack dempsey drill the entire time he is fighting..

 

[thegreenblender]

There are two acceptable foot positions when it comes to width for effective leverage. Shoulder width, and slightly greater than shoulder width. Why is bending your knees a stamina burner? HOW are you bending your knees? And when you do it, how are your feet placed in terms of what part of your foot is your weight on?

You may be unnecessarily straining your legs.

This is a pretty good representation of how I stand. Back foot flexing off the ball of the foot, trying to get lower to compensate for height. I should mention I have shitty knees.

While looking for an approximate representation I saw another example of tall fighter/wide stance. There's no way that's slightly more than shoulder width. Just makes me wonder if there is something to it.

 

[thegreenblender]

pretty sure he means he burns his legs out by constantly having them too bent. he is basically doing a jack dempsey drill the entire time he is fighting..

Or, I feel like it, yes. To be quite honest, I don't train boxing. I've only got the time for jiu-jitsu but I've trained in the past and I try to shadow box and work the bag just for fun and to improve mechanics/form. I can definitely feel when something is a drain...and if it's a drain over a few minutes of training, I think it would be a real hole in the boat during the duration of a hard sparring session or fight. One thing I've noticed is certain fighters seem to have very little tenseness/tension in their bodies when they fight, and how it seems to assist in sustaining their spring/power throughout a fight, so I try to find that balance between staying "tight and protected" and yet "springy" or "loose".

 

[thelyricalmaste]

Do you ever find yourself pushing the right hand and letting your right leg straighten out, particularly on combinations? It could be that you are leaning a bit too much on your lead leg.

What areas are burning out first? Perhaps you are widening your stance by shifting weight between each leg without letting your core (including butt) get involved.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Or, I feel like it, yes. To be quite honest, I don't train boxing. I've only got the time for jiu-jitsu but I've trained in the past and I try to shadow box and work the bag just for fun and to improve mechanics/form. I can definitely feel when something is a drain...and if it's a drain over a few minutes of training, I think it would be a real hole in the boat during the duration of a hard sparring session or fight. One thing I've noticed is certain fighters seem to have very little tenseness/tension in their bodies when they fight, and how it seems to assist in sustaining their spring/power throughout a fight, so I try to find that balance between staying "tight and protected" and yet "springy" or "loose".

you need to be comfortable. being relaxed and ready to move your head, torso and legs is key in boxing. you cant plant yourself like a tree in front of a good fighter.. at the same time, as i said before, you cant be too comfortable to the point where you have bad technique. when i was coaching people with boxing i would talk with them about the paradoxes in boxing.. there are so many you cant name them all.. but basically you need to be relaxed, loose and mobile until you strike and then that needs to be explosive and firm. obviously not all shots are power shots but you need to have a pop in everything or else dont even put it out there..

at my gym we would teach most beginners to have a slight bend in the knees with your feet slightly wider than shoulder width apart.. you need to make sure to lead with that front shoulder and stay somewhat tall... this isnt wrestling or mma.. you dont need to worry about sprawling or leg kicks..

weight distribution is important also. you want to have about 55-60% of your weight on your back foot and shift the power with your legs and hips 1st before the punch even start to extend.. that snap needs to come at the end

 

[MisterT]

This is a pretty good representation of how I stand. Back foot flexing off the ball of the foot, trying to get lower to compensate for height. I should mention I have shitty knees.

If that's how you stand, then you're putting much more emphasis on your front foot than you normally should. Optimally, you front-to-back foot weight distribution should be 40/60 or 50/50.

Putting too much weight on the front leg affects mobility and takes power away from your rear hand.

 

[thegreenblender]

Do you ever find yourself pushing the right hand and letting your right leg straighten out, particularly on combinations? It could be that you are leaning a bit too much on your lead leg.

What areas are burning out first? Perhaps you are widening your stance by shifting weight between each leg without letting your core (including butt) get involved.

At times, yes. In the lower stance I have noticed that the left hook developed a good deal more pop, and my right hand faded some and feels a little more awkward. There's the pushing sensation like you said, and the leg straightening at times...but I feel like that's directly related to me trying to give my legs a break (lift up from the crouch a bit). I feel like I can comfortably throw a left hook from there, but I'm fighting my body (and burning energy) trying to maintain the same low height when I throw a straight.

 

[thegreenblender]

If that's how you stand, then you're putting much more emphasis on your front foot than you normally should. Optimally, you front-to-back foot weight distribution should be 40/60 or 50/50.

Putting too much weight on the front leg affects mobility and takes power away from your rear hand.

Well, that explains much of what I just described (losing power in my natural hand)....thanks...

 

[thegreenblender]

To give credit where credit is due, I think thelyricalmaste pretty much sniffed out the problem as well, although MisterT's words just turned the light bulb on for me, for some reason. I think weight distribution sums up a great deal of the problem very well.

Man, you guys are good. Thanks again.

 

[Sinister]

This is a pretty good representation of how I stand. Back foot flexing off the ball of the foot, trying to get lower to compensate for height. I should mention I have shitty knees.

While looking for an approximate representation I saw another example of tall fighter/wide stance. There's no way that's slightly more than shoulder width. Just makes me wonder if there is something to it.

Wladimir Klitschko is notorious for clumsiness in the ring, and you've just picked up on why. But it's no more than slightly greater than shoulder-width from a frontal view. That's a side-view. It actually appears in that photo that his feet are too close together frontally. His Brother Vitali actually did this in his most recent bout with Tomasz Adamek. Vitali dominated the whole fight, but in one of the rounds he threw a right hand and fell right the fuck over. His feet weren't far apart enough in width, and were too far apart front to back.

The other photo you posted is far too front-foot heavy. Which isn't any wonder it burns out your legs if you lower. Not only do you lose mobility, but it's unbalanced. In this photo, look at Charley Burley (left):

Note his weight distribution. It's slightly favorable to the back foot. If he wants to lower elevation the back knee bends towards his left hand and the front knee bends straight, this keeps the weight balance pretty much the same. Also, he'd post-up on his big toes of each foot. This should create a natural position with the weight lowered. The weight DOES NOT go onto the front foot to lower elevation, or deliver a punch unless it has to, and even then, at the last second possible. This is a good illustration of a lowered position:

On the left Bob Satterfield is hunkered-in for a body-shot underneath. He's already turned his knees, but you can tell he's posted on his toes the right way. Prior to the turn of the knees, both feet would essentially be facing the center of the oppsition's body (if you drew a line from right between their eyes, to the floor).

P.S. - The photo of Burley above he's pictured with Heavyweight J.D. Chapman, whom Burley knocked out in 7 rounds. Because of what he knew about balance, and Burley very often fought out of a crouch despite not being very tall.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

To give credit where credit is due, I think thelyricalmaste pretty much sniffed out the problem as well, although MisterT's words just turned the light bulb on for me, for some reason. I think weight distribution sums up a great deal of the problem very well.

Man, you guys are good. Thanks again.

hahaha i except i said that all 1st! just kidding.. well i did but at least you got your problem fixed, hopefully..

 

[Sinister]

No you didn't.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

No you didn't.

yes, i did. but i honestly dont care. its just funny that you give someone advice and then they thank people who said exactly what you said about 5-10 minutes after.

thats why i dont like posting on the advice forum. ill stick to getting paid for my advice.

 

[thegreenblender]

Note his weight distribution. It's slightly favorable to the back foot. If he wants to lower elevation the back knee bends towards his left hand and the front knee bends straight, this keeps the weight balance pretty much the same. Also, he'd post-up on his big toes of each foot. This should create a natural position with the weight lowered. The weight DOES NOT go onto the front foot to lower elevation, or deliver a punch unless it has to, and even then, at the last second possible. This is a good illustration of a lowered position:

Nice breakdown. In the bolded section, you're talking about the temporary elevation change to go to the body perhaps, or just get underneath punches? I can't quite picture it.

Like, when you say, "front knee bends straight" and "back knee bends towards his left hand", you mean that the front leg would stay exactly where it is, except just bend more at the knee, while the back leg would turn--so that if my right leg is back--my right ankle would start "pointing" to my left?

The viewing angle can be deceiving but, in that last picture (Satterfield) the front leg appears pretty straight, while most the bend is coming from the back leg...is that correct, that in height adjustment it's the back leg bending more?

 

[Sinister]

yes, i did. but i honestly dont care. its just funny that you give someone advice and then they thank people who said exactly what you said about 5-10 minutes after.

thats why i dont like posting on the advice forum. ill stick to getting paid for my advice.

If you look at the posts, your post that mentioned weight distribution is directly AFTER thelyricalmaste's post. And of course you care, otherwise you'd not mention it at all. But I agree, if this is a problem for you then you probably should stick to charging for advice as opposed to posting around here.

Nice breakdown. In the bolded section, you're talking about the temporary elevation change to go to the body perhaps, or just get underneath punches? I can't quite picture it.

Like, when you say, "front knee bends straight" and "back knee bends towards his left hand", you mean that the front leg would stay exactly where it is, except just bend more at the knee, while the back leg would turn--so that if my right leg is back--my right ankle would start "pointing" to my left?

The viewing angle can be deceiving but, in that last picture (Satterfield) the front leg appears pretty straight, while most the bend is coming from the back leg...is that correct, that in height adjustment it's the back leg bending more?

You got the right idea. The notion is for your knees to kind of serve as a cradle for your weight when you lower your body, and still have your feet wide enough to subtly shift to either side. Which is how Satterfield dipped, shifted a little to the left, and fired that uppercut to the body with what looks like quite a bit of force on it.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

If you look at the posts, your post that mentioned weight distribution is directly AFTER thelyricalmaste's post. And of course you care, otherwise you'd not mention it at all. But I agree, if this is a problem for you then you probably should stick to charging for advice as opposed to posting around here.

he said that you need to shift your weight between both legs. i said you need to have slightly more weight on your back leg.. there is a difference.

i care in the sense that i think its funny. im not mad is what i meant...

i probably wont. maybe i will. i will do whatever i feel like. i know you think you are king shit around here- i am not trying to threaten your internet throne so dont worry... i know i know.. youre not worried.. blahblahblah... i do respect your knowledge of boxing. i have read this forum for a long time.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Do you ever find yourself pushing the right hand and letting your right leg straighten out, particularly on combinations? It could be that you are leaning a bit too much on your lead leg.

What areas are burning out first? Perhaps you are widening your stance by shifting weight between each leg without letting your core (including butt) get involved.

where does he say put more weight on your back leg than your front leg?