Crime Why the hell can't we do something like this?

[LeonardoBjj]

cant have this in a country with open borders and a robust welfare system that cuts monthly checks to a massive population of minorities and meth head whites.

- We have that here. Is perfect? No. But people are already paying huge tax in america.
Also any person from any country can come here and get medical treatment...

 

[NickNick]

Because we want to send another 60 billion to Ukraine right now and pay THEIR healthcare and pensions.

Sorry, you don’t matter

And we would rather teach our younger generations to hate white oeolle and Jews, rather than be able to contribute to society and strive for excellence and want to become doctors, radiologists, nurses, etc

Lets be real, even if we weren't handing money to Ukraine you and those hard right would not support socialized medicine or pretty much any new social programs from the government.

 

[Wetarmpits]

Because we want to send another 60 billion to Ukraine right now and pay THEIR healthcare and pensions.

Sorry, you don’t matter

And we would rather teach our younger generations to hate white oeolle and Jews, rather than be able to contribute to society and strive for excellence and want to become doctors, radiologists, nurses, etc

JEEEEEWS



As if you would send anything to anyone who's not "in your Team".

And just for the record I am a registered nurse and worked as one for 5 years taking actual care of people no matter who showed up and went through the three years of education to become one before.

 

[terrapin]

America already has this. If you are a low income earner you qualify for Medicaid and if you are over the age of 65 or have some sort of disability you qualify for Medicare. Also there are other governmental programs that offer medical services like if you are a veteran or CHIP if you have a child and do not qualify for Medicaid. The people who get destroyed by medical costs are people who choose to be un-insured (about 5% of the population) because they want to opt out and save the money on health insurance. And if something catastrophic happens, well that's why you want to have insurance in the first place.

This is absolute bullshit apologetics. My parents went bankrupt due to (edit for accuracy. I don't really know how much only that it bankrupted them) thousands and thousands of dollars of medical bills due to my mother getting cancer. They both worked and had insurance on both sides. Dad was a master union electrician.

Fuck you and the liars that pretend people that are insured don't get buried by medical bills and ruined by predatory health care providers while their parents die.

Fuck off.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Too many people make too much money off the current Ponzi scheme system in Murka so it will never change, despite being ridiculous by the standards of the rest of the world, unless there is a revolution.

 

[Scheme]

This is absolute bullshit apologetics. My parents went bankrupt due to hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills due to my mother getting cancer. They both worked and had insurance on both sides. Dad was a journeyman union electrician.

Fuck you and the liars that pretend people that are insured don't get buried by medical bills and ruined by predatory health care providers while their parents die.

Fuck off.

Out-of-Pocket Spending and Financial Burden Among Medicare Beneficiaries With Cancer

Medicare beneficiaries with cancer are at risk for financial hardship given increasingly expensive cancer care and significant cost sharing by beneficiaries.To measure out-of-pocket (OOP) costs incurred by Medicare beneficiaries with cancer and identify ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Among the 1409 participants (median age, 73 years [interquartile range, 69-79 years]; 46.4% female and 53.6% male) diagnosed with cancer during the study period, the type of supplementary insurance was significantly associated with mean annual OOP costs incurred after a cancer diagnosis ($2116 among those insured by Medicaid, $2367 among those insured by the Veterans Health Administration, $5976 among those insured by a Medicare health maintenance organization, $5492 among those with employer-sponsored insurance, $5670 among those with Medigap insurance coverage, and $8115 among those insured by traditional fee-for-service Medicare but without supplemental insurance coverage). A new diagnosis of cancer or common chronic noncancer condition was associated with increased odds of incurring costs in the highest decile of OOP expenditures (cancer: adjusted odds ratio, 1.86; 95% CI, 1.55-2.23; P < .001; chronic noncancer condition: adjusted odds ratio, 1.82; 95% CI, 1.69-1.97; P < .001). Beneficiaries with a new cancer diagnosis and Medicare alone incurred OOP expenditures that were a mean of 23.7% of their household income; 10% of these beneficiaries incurred OOP expenditures that were 63.1% of their household income. Among the 10% of beneficiaries with cancer who incurred the highest OOP costs, hospitalization contributed to 41.6% of total OOP costs.

I don't know about your father's situation, but according to this study the OOP costs of cancer treatment range from $2K to $8K/year with insurance. Given that Americans on average make $22K more than South Koreans, this is well within the range of additional earnings that one would get in America. Also, South Koreans also pay a portion of the bill for their healthcare and many opt for private insurance to cover those gaps.

 

[calavera2]

Republicans rebelled when healthy lunches were pushed by Obama...

 

[no fat chicks]

cant have this in a country with open borders and a robust welfare system that cuts monthly checks to a massive population of minorities and meth head whites.

I'd argue the the lack of it is one of the contributing factors to these issues.
The data would back me up as well. Medical debt is one the main debts people have.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

This is absolute bullshit apologetics. My parents went bankrupt due to hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical bills due to my mother getting cancer. They both worked and had insurance on both sides. Dad was a journeyman union electrician.

Fuck you and the liars that pretend people that are insured don't get buried by medical bills and ruined by predatory health care providers while their parents die.

Fuck off.

nah...thats not the whole story.

 

[Lucas1980]

Republicans rebelled when healthy lunches were pushed by Obama...

The majority of people that had to eat that crap rebelled...But Mikes heart was in the right place.

 

[terrapin]

Out-of-Pocket Spending and Financial Burden Among Medicare Beneficiaries With Cancer

Medicare beneficiaries with cancer are at risk for financial hardship given increasingly expensive cancer care and significant cost sharing by beneficiaries.To measure out-of-pocket (OOP) costs incurred by Medicare beneficiaries with cancer and identify ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I don't know about your father's situation, but according to this study the OOP costs of cancer treatment range from $2K to $8K/year with insurance. Given that Americans on average make $22K more than South Koreans, this is well within the range of additional earnings that one would get in America. Also, South Koreans also pay a portion of the bill for their healthcare and many opt for private insurance to cover those gaps.

I think that's very generous of you since most Americans don't have expendable income and can't afford even a single emergency.. and have no savings in their savings accounts. So we're supposed to expect that 2 to 8,000 more dollars a year won't sink a bunch of people?

That's bad thinking on lots of levels.

But let's think it through more clearly now. My situation happened in the '80s back when cancer treatment was less evolved and made people much more sick.... devastatingly sick. We also lived 4 hours from the hospital that could do the cancer treatment. So you have both parents working having to make a 4-hour trip one way to get somewhere to do treatment that made my mother devastatingly sick afterwards for days. So now you have parents who are gone for usually a day and a half getting cancer treatment. Staying overnight with friends in the city and coming back, but who pays for the babysitter to watch the children while they're gone?? Who picks those kids up from school and takes them to school? Who replaces the income that is lost for missing work so much due to the cancer treatment itself? Which I think was at least one treatment a week but probably more.

But none of that included the surgeries for cutting some of the cancer out and that's days in the hospital, missed work, extra expenses.

I mean I was 12 at the time so I might have some of the numbers off possibly. But I know this. My dad was a proud man who never missed a day of work in his life unless it was 100% completely unavoidable and wouldn't take a hand out from any human being on the planet and they went bankrupt because my mother got cancer and they both worked and they both had insurance.

And i was wrong. My dad was a master electrician at the time and I don't know what he made per hour but back then that was really good money. Way more money than a whole bunch of other people who work and have insurance who get cancer make.

Any fantasy notion and lie that people with jobs and insurance don't go bankrupt due to medical bills is an intentional fabrication and a despicable lie.

 

[Scheme]

I think that's very generous of you since most Americans don't have expendable income and can't afford even a single emergency.. and have no savings in their savings accounts. So we're supposed to expect that 2 to 8,000 more dollars a year won't sink a bunch of people?

That's bad thinking on lots of levels.

But let's think it through more clearly now. My situation happened in the '80s back when cancer treatment was less evolved and made people much more sick.... devastatingly sick. We also lived 4 hours from the hospital that could do the cancer treatment. So you have both parents working having to make a 4-hour trip one way to get somewhere to do treatment that made my mother devastatingly sick afterwards for days. So now you have parents who are gone for usually a day and a half getting cancer treatment. Staying overnight with friends in the city and coming back, but who pays for the babysitter to watch the children while they're gone?? Who picks those kids up from school and takes them to school? Who replaces the income that is lost for missing work so much due to the cancer treatment itself? Which I think was at least one treatment a week but probably more.

But none of that included the surgeries for cutting some of the cancer out and that's days in the hospital, missed work, extra expenses.

I mean I was 12 at the time so I might have some of the numbers off possibly. But I know this. My dad was a proud man who never missed a day of work in his life unless it was 100% completely unavoidable and wouldn't take a hand out from any human being on the planet and they went bankrupt because my mother got cancer and they both worked and they both had insurance.

And i was wrong. My dad was a master electrician at the time and I don't know what he made per hour but back then that was really good money. Way more money than a whole bunch of other people who work and have insurance who get cancer make.

Any fantasy notion and lie that people with jobs and insurance don't go bankrupt due to medical bills is an intentional fabrication and a despicable lie.

The vast majority of the people who quote these insane nightmare bills are due to being uninsured. The whole concept of insurance is to cover these exact scenarios, you pay a monthly premium in case you get a huge bill.

Again, people in the USA make $22K/year on average more than people in South Korea, with healthcare being paid for by the government for people who make low incomes, are 65 or older, or various other programs like CHIP and VA medical services. The fact that they can't spend an average of $4K/year on cancer treatments when they make $22K/year more and pay less in taxes is not a strong argument. And beyond that, South Korea also requires people to pay a portion of their healthcare bills on the public system (~20% copay from what I am reading, which is why people opt into insurance on top of that).

Our costs also have to be examined as a result of American's unhealthy lifestyles as well. Americans on average are more obese and overweight, have more medical conditions, have more medical emergencies than other countries and have higher average physician pay than other countries. On top of that we unfortunately do contribute and subsidize a lot of the R&D in the healthcare space as well. If we normalized those factors to the average of first-world countries, our costs would be much lower.

 

[terrapin]

The vast majority of the people who quote these insane nightmare bills are due to being uninsured. The whole concept of insurance is to cover these exact scenarios, you pay a monthly premium in case you get a huge bill.

Again, people in the USA make $22K/year on average more than people in South Korea, with healthcare being paid for by the government for people who make low incomes, are 65 or older, or various other programs like CHIP and VA medical services. The fact that they can't spend an average of $4K/year on cancer treatments when they make $22K/year more and pay less in taxes is not a strong argument. And beyond that, South Korea also requires people to pay a portion of their healthcare bills on the public system (~20% copay from what I am reading, which is why people opt into insurance on top of that).

Our costs also have to be examined as a result of American's unhealthy lifestyles as well. Americans on average are more obese and overweight, have more medical conditions, have more medical emergencies than other countries and have higher average physician pay than other countries. On top of that we unfortunately do contribute and subsidize a lot of the R&D in the healthcare space as well. If we normalized those factors to the average of first-world countries, our costs would be much lower.here us ==

here is the false claim you made that sparked my refutation of it. you can walk that back and admit its wrong if you want or not but THIS is what we are discussing.

The people who get destroyed by medical costs are people who choose to be un-insured (about 5% of the population) because they want to opt out and save the money on health insurance. And if something catastrophic happens, well that's why you want to have insurance in the first place.

 

[calavera2]

The majority of people that had to eat that crap rebelled...But Mikes heart was in the right place.

The only thing you're good for is spitting vitriol comrade

 

[Sweater of AV]

healthcare being paid for by the government for people who make low incomes, are 65 or older, or various other programs like CHIP and VA medical services.

My guy, I already explained to you that this is incorrect and a hilarious generalization of the actual situation. Anyone that has actually dealt with health insurance in this country knows you're completely full of shit.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. I'm willing to bet that you're Canadian.

 

[Scheme]

here is the false claim you made that sparked my refutation of it. you can walk that back and admit its wrong if you want or not but THIS is what we are discussing.

The people who get destroyed by medical costs are people who choose to be un-insured (about 5% of the population) because they want to opt out and save the money on health insurance. And if something catastrophic happens, well that's why you want to have insurance in the first place.

By 'destroyed' I meant the people who get those insane healthcare bills of $10K-$100K and claim that is representative of the average American healthcare experience. Most healthcare bankruptcies are either a case of being uninsured and/or not saving for emergencies. And costs can be further reduced if we normalized some factors that make the US unhealthier than other countries on average.

The view that if you get sick in America you will likely go bankrupt is simply far from the truth, both because people in America are generally unhealthier than other nations and the fact that the bankruptcy rates are in line with other nations. For example, Canada has a non-business bankruptcy rate of 0.8 per 1000 people in 2022. US had a bankruptcy rate of 1.1 per 1000 people in 2022. Not a huge difference (and could probably be explained by the differences in bankruptcy laws/regulations, but I don't care to do that much research). Note that Canada in the past had higher bankruptcy rates (06/07) versus USA, so they tend to flip back and forth.

Annual Consumer Insolvency Rates by Province and Economic Region

Tables of statistics on Canadian consumer insolvency rates by province and economic region for years 2010 to 2022.

ised-isde.canada.ca

https://www.uscourts.gov/news/2023/02/06/bankruptcy-filings-drop-63-percent#:~:text=31%2C%202022.,31%2C%202022.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/HealthInsuranceandBankruptcyRates.pdf

 

[Jack V Savage]

People like Jack don’t think anything can be accomplished through unity. His whole world view is left versus right.

No, I think it would be good if we can unite and pass left-wing policy, but I think there's a problem with executing that that should be acknowledged.

Republicans came extremely close to throwing millions off Medicaid to pay for another tax cut for rich people last time they had full control over gov't (stopped by McCain of all people). Why do you think that they'd support increasing gov't support for care and much higher taxes (and remember that they've all pledged not to raise taxes at all)?

 

[chardog]

We have a long history of the ultra wealthy brainwashing conservatives into believing that any attempt to use our wealth for the good of the people is evil communism and doomed to fail. I have no hope of that changing in our lifetime anymore

not sure why you're blaming republicans when obamacare was exactly what a full fledged democrat system gave us.

historically speaking, health care prices were manageable until the 80's, then they blew up.

during the 2000's we've been peak levels already, and it's been decades of overspending, the hooks are well in place at this point, giving up would require a drastic change in our economy.

it's likely that the young are subsiding the old as their health care is ridiculously high. On top of that, population growth has been low, so more old people are in the population, higher expenditure across the board.

universal healthcare seems to help, but I dont think it's the golden ticket

Healthcare expenditure as share of GDP UK 2022 | Statista

The UK health expenditure as a percentage of GDP remained within 10% between 2009 and 2019. After peaking in 2021, there was a significant decrease in 2022.

www.statista.com

it's been going up as well, everyone wants to profit off of healthcare, everyone.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

obamacare is the culmination of every democrat healthcare idea.