Why America cant win International wrestling

[-guerilla-]

I've been a wrestling coach for over 20 years and it has always frustrated me that America doesn't do that well in International wrestling

For those of you that aren't familiar America has a unique style of wrestling called folkstyle ....practiced nowhere else in the world

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collegiate_wrestling

The Olympic styles of Greco-Roman and freestyle are considerably different and this lack of expertise puts our athletes at a disadvantage

American folkstyle wrestlers can be sensitive about this topic... extraordinarily sensitive... like sjw triggered sensitive

Once again as an American wrestling coach I love American wrestling and I just want us to do better in the future

I think the time has come to ditch this unique style of wrestling that is practiced nowhere else in the world and adopt International wrestling so that our athletes won't be put at a disadvantage in the future when facing International competition

The good news:
America celibrated its first world title in 22 years in 2017



The bad news:

Next year...
"Russia claimed 10 gold medals, 1 silver medal and 2 bronze medals, its best ever overall result in the post-Soviet era.[2] In Greco-Roman Wrestling Russian athletes showed the best ever result since 1990, when they were part of the Soviet Union"[

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_World_Wrestling_Championships

And in the rematch 2018...



Snyder pinned to the mat with ease

2016 Olympics we came in at 4th overall
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics

And remember we almost lost wrestling all together for the 2020 Olympics where it has been reinstated but is by no means safe for good...

"]In September 2013 the IOC voted to allow wrestling back into the Olympics for 2020 and 2024 as a probationary sport"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freestyle_wrestling

WRESTLING HAS A VERY UNCERTAIN FATE
the modern commercialism of sports has reduced the Olympics into yet another extension of regular TV not a celebration of world games!!


It's my firm opinion that the advertising dollar will eventually Crush any sport that America doesn't dominate out of the Olympics as the American Consumer is the primary driver of advertising Revenue now and in the near future

 

[SandisLL]

In fact, American wrestling and Sovietic wrestling schools always were considered as good, powerful and with strong traditions.

Lack of interest about Freestyle ( Olympic ) Wrestling for Games and World Championships.

 

[jack36767]

Ahem. You “were” a wrestling coach

 

[PayPerView]

Ahem. You “were” a wrestling coach

Looks like he triggered you in another thread. Pretty childish response.

Good points OP.

 

[SandisLL]

I wish to see Greko - Roman wrestling and Freestyle in Olympic Games forever.
Attempts to exclude wrestlings from Olympic programm I think isn't because US obstacles and public.
Striking arts popularity, moving Karate in Olympics plan, large public in asia without interest in western sports....

 

[jack36767]

Looks like he triggered you in another thread. Pretty childish response.

Good points OP.

No he stopped several years ago lol

 

[rmongler]

This guy really loves the sound of his own voice. Can't even contain himself to one thread.

 

[Zankou]

International wrestling is niche. Almost dropped from the Olympics. No reason to desperately seek validation in it.

 

[jack36767]

International wrestling is niche. Almost dropped from the Olympics. No reason to desperately seek validation in it.

Blaming the US as well is the most amusing part

 

[-guerilla-]

Looks like he triggered you in another thread. Pretty childish response.

Good points OP.

Thanks...

I completely understand the sensitivity, you have to understand that wrestling has always been the "third class citizen" of High School athletics

In some regions of the country it receives a bit more funding but it never gets the kind of support the other sports do

Most of my programs were relegated to some small back room in the dirtiest nastiest place in the high school gym

I can remember as a wrestler in high school we had to carry our mats out of the janitorial closet up a set of bleachers and set up practice in the middle of the main hallway of the school.

Oh well adversity breeds strength

the simple fact is folkstyle wrestling only exist in the American school systems nowhere else in the world

This puts arm wrestlers at a hopeless disadvantage when face with International competition

if we simply adopted International rules wrestling from the Scholastic level we would produce Olympic Champions routinely and in fact would most likely dominate the sport

If we dominated the sport wrestling would receive the kind of support that would allow Young American athletes to become professionals and concentrate solely on the sport of wrestling as their profession

I just love America and American wrestling and I want to see it do better on the world stage

 

[-guerilla-]

Blaming the US as well is the most amusing part

I AM a wrestling coach

I dont blame America

I blame YOU, and all the coaches that fight against international switch argument

...what would happen if we switched to international rules?

 

[-guerilla-]

International wrestling is niche. Almost dropped from the Olympics. No reason to desperately seek validation in it.

i bet it will be dropped after the 2024 Olympics

 

[-guerilla-]

In fact, American wrestling and Sovietic wrestling schools always were considered as good, powerful and with strong traditions.

Lack of interest about Freestyle ( Olympic ) Wrestling for Games and World Championships.

yes...however the Russians almost always win!

because we dont have international wrestling in american schools..

.a small % run a summer program...thats IT!

 

[ChainFlow]

How many times are you going to make this thread?

 

[jack36767]

Thanks...

I completely understand the sensitivity, you have to understand that wrestling has always been the "third class citizen" of High School athletics

In some regions of the country it receives a bit more funding but it never gets the kind of support the other sports do

Most of my programs were relegated to some small back room in the dirtiest nastiest place in the high school gym

I can remember as a wrestler in high school we had to carry our mats out of the janitorial closet up a set of bleachers and set up practice in the middle of the main hallway of the school.

Oh well adversity breeds strength

the simple fact is folkstyle wrestling only exist in the American school systems nowhere else in the world

This puts arm wrestlers at a hopeless disadvantage when face with International competition

if we simply adopted International rules wrestling from the Scholastic level we would produce Olympic Champions routinely and in fact would most likely dominate the sport

If we dominated the sport wrestling would receive the kind of support that would allow Young American athletes to become professionals and concentrate solely on the sport of wrestling as their profession

I just love America and American wrestling and I want to see it do better on the world stage

No high school wrestling gets put in the shittiest spots because wrestling coaches are usually terrible at building relationships and making themselves valuable to the school... usually wrestling coaches are not team players with the school and always have an obnoxious chip on their shoulder..

So when it comes time to cut something.. it’s been pretty easy to either cut resources or cut the wrestling team

This is the crux of the problem.. that same sort of thing is why a lot of college programs got cut.. not title 9 that was the excuse.. and a big reason why the IOC is willing to cut wrestling.. so until more coaches and organizations learn how to make themselves valuable and get women’s wrestling up.. changing to Freestyle won’t matter

You’re acting like winning in a niche sport would automatically produce funding.. that’s an asinine assumption

 

[jack36767]

I AM a wrestling coach

I dont blame America

I blame YOU, and all the coaches that fight against international switch argument

...what would happen if we switched to international rules?

No, you quit the sport and coach mma and preach from an out of touch of touch bitter old man perspective

I’m not “fighting” it dumbass. You selectively read.. I know it won’t magically fix the problem like you think..

If we switched to freestyle it probably would stop being a scholastic sport because of liability and injury risk and would mean even less Americans wrestling and even less chance of medals. It wouldn’t automatically mean more viewership and it wouldn’t automatically mean more sponsors

Oh btw... it’s not just a small %.. training it. you know how I explained there’s more money involved.. the best kids will go to the OTC for a year in high school or right after college or attend the local RTC.

I shouldn’t have to explain those terms right? You are a wrestling coach not out of touch

A little history lesson
Now the US had started to truly mostly ignore freestyle in the early 2000s due to
1. Repeatedly getting fucked by corrupt refs, see Cary Kolat (the fact you don’t acknowledge this well known part of international wrestling is what tells me how little you know)
2. No money or support
3. Unwatchable rules where it was about ball grabs and winning periods (which the US didn’t make)

After the Olympic scare...
1. UWW changed the rules to be more watchable
2. The USA reprioritized freestyle, and found money/fundraising
3. Created the RTC system
4. Found ways to get the elite athletes elite coaching and competition overseas..
5. Women’s wrestling was re emphasized
6. More efforts to help countries not in the traditional medal list

So the US went from being lucky to have one medal to expecting to have 3-7 and being in the top 3. And building depth


Now I know you aren’t actually going to read but let me try to put it another way


in your poor lil tiny Kentucky school.. if you were trying to win state.. after the school almost cut wrestling., and you went from having one stare qualifier.. to multiple medalists and a couple champs.. and top 3 in state.. but you were still losing to Louisville St. Xavier.. which is approximately what you said you did..

According to YOUR logic.. I can just go.. “lol, you fucking suck. You couldn’t win state in Kentucky???? Who cares how much you have improved” now I’m NOT saying that.. just explaining your logic..

And it truly is cute you call me a water boy because I disagree with you

 

[yetanother]

If we switched to freestyle it probably would stop being a scholastic sport because of liability and injury risk and would mean even less Americans wrestling and even less chance of medals. It wouldn’t automatically mean more viewership and it wouldn’t automatically mean more sponsors

Are there more injuries in freestyle?

 

[-guerilla-]

How many times are you going to make this thread?

it's a different thread...the trolls are reacting same way however

don't get it twisted

my "Grappling sports" thread is about the constant fiddling of rules and thus the lack of consistency in GRAPPLING SPORTS (all of them...plural)

This Thread is particularly about Americans lack of success in the sport of wrestling internationally and what we can do to fix it

I understand your confusion

though a tiny handful of people are reacting the exact same way to two different ideas

 

[-guerilla-]

No, you quit the sport and coach mma and preach from an out of touch of touch bitter old man perspective

I’m not “fighting” it dumbass. You selectively read.. I know it won’t magically fix the problem like you think..

If we switched to freestyle it probably would stop being a scholastic sport because of liability and injury risk and would mean even less Americans wrestling and even less chance of medals. It wouldn’t automatically mean more viewership and it wouldn’t automatically mean more sponsors

Oh btw... it’s not just a small %.. training it. you know how I explained there’s more money involved.. the best kids will go to the OTC for a year in high school or right after college or attend the local RTC.

I shouldn’t have to explain those terms right? You are a wrestling coach not out of touch

A little history lesson
Now the US had started to truly mostly ignore freestyle in the early 2000s due to
1. Repeatedly getting fucked by corrupt refs, see Cary Kolat (the fact you don’t acknowledge this well known part of international wrestling is what tells me how little you know)
2. No money or support
3. Unwatchable rules where it was about ball grabs and winning periods (which the US didn’t make)

After the Olympic scare...
1. UWW changed the rules to be more watchable
2. The USA reprioritized freestyle, and found money/fundraising
3. Created the RTC system
4. Found ways to get the elite athletes elite coaching and competition overseas..
5. Women’s wrestling was re emphasized
6. More efforts to help countries not in the traditional medal list

So the US went from being lucky to have one medal to expecting to have 3-7 and being in the top 3. And building depth


Now I know you aren’t actually going to read but let me try to put it another way


in your poor lil tiny Kentucky school.. if you were trying to win state.. after the school almost cut wrestling., and you went from having one stare qualifier.. to multiple medalists and a couple champs.. and top 3 in state.. but you were still losing to Louisville St. Xavier.. which is approximately what you said you did..

According to YOUR logic.. I can just go.. “lol, you fucking suck. You couldn’t win state in Kentucky???? Who cares how much you have improved” now I’m NOT saying that.. just explaining your logic..

And it truly is cute you call me a water boy because I disagree with you

I coached last year and will again in 2019/2020

Your ball grabbing tinfoil hat conspiracy theories are hilarious... but you are 100% on right on one thing folkstyle wrestling coaches are often angry people with chips on their shoulders... look in the mirror often?

jack its just a simple profit motive



Your deep passionate love and dedication for folkstyle wrestling and you're blind hate for me is really showing more and more as you become unhinged in your responses

It's time for you to take a deep breath calm down and talk to somebody about your feelings

 

[-guerilla-]

Are there more injuries in freestyle?

Of course there are

the whole world practices freestyle.

Folkstyle Only exists in the United States of America schools....that's it

there's more of everything in freestyle

Especially big Dynamic throws and takedowns

Folkstyle athlete spend the vast majority of their time riding somebody in turtle so they have a harder time dealing with the superior takedowns and throws of freestyle

You see folkstyles Ground Control is based on an opponent that spends his defenseive time on all fours not the guard.

In freestyle and Greco they stand you up and you resume the match on your feet just like MMA

In folkstyle you spend the whole time riding a guy and trying to turn him to his back which is a virtually worthless skill in MMA

They spend so much time down on the mat trying to ride somebody they get beat in the Olympics/ the worlds and international mma