What if Pride Won?

[Johnny Redd]

Unlike the WWF (now WWE) did with WCW UFC didn't actually beat Pride in ratings but Pride killed itself when Cro Cop/Fedor's [ex] Manager accused the promotion of ties to the Yakuza and then the dominos started falling from there. But what if the infamous lawsuit never happened? And Pride never lost their TV deals? Could've Dana beat them fair and square?

 

[2004 account]

Probably not, that’s why Pride got bought out, for being competition.

I would love to have pride still around today, co existing with the ufc and giving us all those crossover fights that had us talking about back in the day.

I feel Pride ended up winning the battle (as far as being the superior promotion) but lost the war (got bought out by ufc).

In some alternate reality Pride never died and would still be producing exiting fights til now.

 

[manboy<3]

PRIDE would have died

By the way..K-1 was at times Bigger than PRIDE and K-1 Collapsed. Yes K-1 is back now but it's not the same thing. K-1 looked to be way more healthy than PRIDE, less direct organized crime connections, the ability to stage BOTH K-1 and MMA events. Lots of Foreign AND local stars and here is the major thing - the ABILITY to produce LOCAL STARS and finally...NO REAL COMPETITION FOR TALENT UNLIKE PRIDE

So if the much better positioned/healthy K-1 collapsed what makes you think that PRIDE would have survived ? PRIDE, if not outright collapsed like K-1, would have had to scale down thier major shows significantly

The fact is that Japan does not compare to the U.S + Canada (Almost 400 million people) as an MMA market so any success is fleeting..

PRIDE died with dignity with one last major show and IMO this was way better than watching the slow collapse of K-1

The only question here is was selling the rights to PRIDE worth the 60-80 million that Zuffa paid ?

(Note to JMMA weabos, I did not follow K-1's collapse closely so my post probably contains errors)

 

[Buffmeister]

In Japan so many companys and organisations are heavily involved by the Yakuza.
And (if i am not wrong)...nobody "cares", as long as nobody is making it puplic through newspapers, even if "everybody knows".

But if its big in the news...it is a "scandal"...

So in that case: Fuck you CroCops/Fedor's manager for taking that Organisation down!

Otherwise...
UFC would be the 2nd major org. after Pride...

I think the UFC wouldn't have gotten a huuuuge payday by WME and the UFC would be compared to Pride, in the same way like Strikeforce was to the UFC. (A good org with good fighters...)

 

[TRT Champion]

Things in Japan work in trends and waves. Remember the Tamagotchi trend? No wonder you don't - it was so short lived, just like anything trendy in Japan.
MMA is not popular there anymore, even if they had several decent promotions after Pride FC folded shop. The trend just died off.

 

[skylolow]

PRIDE would have died

By the way..K-1 was at times Bigger than PRIDE and K-1 Collapsed. Yes K-1 is back now but it's not the same thing. K-1 looked to be way more healthy than PRIDE, less direct organized crime connections, the ability to stage BOTH K-1 and MMA events. Lots of Foreign AND local stars and here is the major thing - the ABILITY to produce LOCAL STARS and finally...NO REAL COMPETITION FOR TALENT UNLIKE PRIDE

So if the much better positioned/healthy K-1 collapsed what makes you think that PRIDE would have survived ? PRIDE, if not outright collapsed like K-1, would have had to scale down thier major shows significantly

The fact is that Japan does not compare to the U.S + Canada (Almost 400 million people) as an MMA market so any success is fleeting..

PRIDE died with dignity with one last major show and IMO this was way better than watching the slow collapse of K-1

The only question here is was selling the rights to PRIDE worth the 60-80 million that Zuffa paid ?

(Note to JMMA weabos, I did not follow K-1's collapse closely so my post probably contains errors)

Boom, this is pretty much it.

Pride was never going to win the war. Even Sak. towards the end said they can't compete dollar wise for fighters any more.

It's like people never realized that Pride in its best year ever only collected 20 million from Japan media deal. You could argue that Pride's revenue was very similar to what Bellator is today or at least in the ball park.


PS: Hard to say if it was worth 60-80 Million. It does sound like on some level Zuffa got duped by what they thought they were all buying when it came to fighter contracts. Pride's media is worth a lot of money and that has to be a major attraction to anyone buying into Fightpass. So I think overtime it has paid off with the name brand, media, and the fighters they did get.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Would have failed eventually unfortunately

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Boom, this is pretty much it.

Pride was never going to win the war. Even Sak. towards the end said they can't compete dollar wise for fighters any more.

It's like people never realized that Pride in its best year ever only collected 20 million from Japan media deal. You could argue that Pride's revenue was very similar to what Bellator is today or at least in the ball park.


PS: Hard to say if it was worth 60-80 Million. It does sound like on some level Zuffa got duped by what they thought they were all buying when it came to fighter contracts. Pride's media is worth a lot of money and that has to be a major attraction to anyone buying into Fightpass. So I think overtime it has paid off with the name brand, media, and the fighters they did get.

Compared to ufc in day they smoke them. Areans pay etc
And when competing they paid pretty same. Wand was similar to chuck pay.
Takada cleaned out saku he should be richest. Was corrupt in some ways.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Things in Japan work in trends and waves. Remember the Tamagotchi trend? No wonder you don't - it was so short lived, just like anything trendy in Japan.
MMA is not popular there anymore, even if they had several decent promotions after Pride FC folded shop. The trend just died off.

you need superstars. Pancrase. Funaki.
Pride. Saku
when go away. They go away and promotion

 

[skylolow]

Compared to ufc in day they smoke them. Areans pay etc
And when competing they paid pretty same. Wand was similar to chuck pay.
Takada cleaned out saku he should be richest. Was corrupt in some ways.

They smoked them in 2003 no doubt. But by 2006 and beyond the UFC was rolling. I'd venture to guess that by the end of 2006 one quarter of the UFC's revenue out did Pride's yearly revenue of lets say 2005.

By 2007 the UFC could've plucked every superstar from Pride if they wanted to go too the UFC and Pride won't have the revenue to do anything about it. Sak himself even said that in not so many words. More or less shortly after CroCop walked away.

I enjoyed Pride, loved it. But the writing was on the wall even before it fell apart. It's like most sports...........one form of the sport usually reigns supreme and any other version of it fights for scraps.

 

[FKA]

Unlike the WWF (now WWE) did with WCW UFC didn't actually beat Pride in ratings but Pride killed itself when Cro Cop/Fedor's [ex] Manager accused the promotion of ties to the Yakuza and then the dominos started falling from there. But what if the infamous lawsuit never happened? And Pride never lost their TV deals? Could've Dana beat them fair and square?

Or better question what if the UFC was outed for having mafia ties during the ZUFFA ERA like Pride was do you think Strikeforce would have become the mega org?

People were aware of the ties I guess Americans just don't care as much as Japanese???

 

[kingcillo24]

Things in Japan work in trends and waves. Remember the Tamagotchi trend? No wonder you don't - it was so short lived, just like anything trendy in Japan.
MMA is not popular there anymore, even if they had several decent promotions after Pride FC folded shop. The trend just died off.

Japan is still a top MMA market. There hasn't been a British, Brazilian or Canadian promotion that has popped up that can do DREAM or RIZIN attendance. Really only KSW in Poland and M-1/ EFN with Fedor have been able to do it.

1) USA by far 2) Russia 3) Poland or 3) Japan

There are not many organizations outside the UFC and Bellator that can do over 10k attendance.

 

[X Factor]

I still think the UFC should do a yearly pride show would be cool and interesting but it will never happen

 

[Kingz]

We’d probably have a bunch of AMMA dorks reminiscing about the minimalist production, 10 point must system, and HELLBOWS of the fallen UFC.

 

[chamcham]

The Yakuza is the wealthiest organization in Japan. So it is hard to avoid them.

 

[TRT Champion]

Japan is still a top MMA market. There hasn't been a British, Brazilian or Canadian promotion that has popped up that can do DREAM or RIZIN attendance. Really only KSW in Poland and M-1/ EFN with Fedor have been able to do it.

The Japanese promotions do those big numbers once a year (normally on NYE). Not sustainable year round like in the old Pride FC days.
I am not sure if RIZIN is turning any profit even from those one-shot big events. They now rely on whatever old school hardcore fans are left there, which is not a good business model. You need the casuals in order to make money.
The interest in MMA has decreased dramatically in the land of the rising sun.

 

[ThunderL1ps]

It would have been interesting if Ed Fishman were allowed to buy PRIDE instead of the UFC. According to him, he had the right of first refusal. which he never received. The plan was he was going to take it around the world. No idea how long it would have lasted like that or if he'd get the right mix of broadcasters and PPV connections on board.

 

[kingcillo24]

The Japanese promotions do those big numbers once a year (normally on NYE). Not sustainable year round like in the old Pride FC days.
I am not sure if RIZIN is turning any profit even from those one-shot big events. They now rely on whatever old school hardcore fans are left there, which is not a good business model. You need the casuals in order to make money.
The interest in MMA has decreased dramatically in the land of the rising sun.

Every Saitama Super Arena does over 15k attendance no matter the time of year. How many cities or organizations can draw two 15k shows in a 3 day span like Rizin NYE 2016 and 2017?