Wasn't Rahmans win over Lewis a bigger upset than Tyson-Douglas

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The skill disparity between Lennox Lewis and Hasim Rahmann is much greater than Mike Tyson and Buster Douglas, is it not?
 
I mean Lewis weighed in at 253lbs for the first fight and he was filming a movie during training camp.
 
mozfonky said:
no, not even close.
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Do you think Rahman is closer in skill level to Lewis? Even underachiever Buster Douglas was a legit contender. he lost every big fight except the Tyson one, but he was in the mix. He had potential. he did well in some of his candidate matches but gassed.
 
Intermission said:
Do you think Rahman is closer in skill level to Lewis? Even underachiever Buster Douglas was a legit contender. he lost every big fight except the Tyson one, but he was in the mix. He had potential. he did well in some of his candidate matches but gassed.
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Tyson was so highly regarded at the time and was so dominant that there is really no comparison. We have to go with what we know now, not with hindsight.

Lewis was never thought of like prime Tyson. Prime Tyson was and sometimes still is seen as better than Ali and the rest of the previous heavyweights. He was equal to Michael Jordan in basketball. We know how he turned out and that he's not seen that way today but I doubt people were shocked or even tuned in enough to notice a Lewis loss.
 
mozfonky said:
Tyson was so highly regarded at the time and was so dominant that there is really no comparison. We have to go with what we know now, not with hindsight.

Lewis was never thought of like prime Tyson. Prime Tyson was and sometimes still is seen as better than Ali and the rest of the previous heavyweights. He was equal to Michael Jordan in basketball. We know how he turned out and that he's not seen that way today but I doubt people were shocked or even tuned in enough to notice a Lewis loss.
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did you think lewis could lose his title against anyone around the rahman fight?
 
Intermission said:
did you think lewis could lose his title against anyone around the rahman fight?
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Lewis already showed he didn't have a granite chin, people argue that but he got kayoed with pretty much a single punch against Tyson's old sparring partner. He also had a disputed fight with Mercer and some really unimpressive showings. He was never seen as a purely dominant force. That's not to say he didn't achieve greatness, he did. He became better as a champion, avenged his losses and retired on top. Great fighter.

Could he have lost to anyone? I'd say he could have lost to anyone with enough power to kayo him. The job of a champion is to fight hungry, hypermotivated challengers, fighters who are often hungrier and more determined. He didn't do it that night.
 
mozfonky said:
Lewis already showed he didn't have a granite chin, people argue that but he got kayoed with pretty much a single punch against Tyson's old sparring partner. He also had a disputed fight with Mercer and some really unimpressive showings. He was never seen as a purely dominant force. That's not to say he didn't achieve greatness, he did. He became better as a champion, avenged his losses and retired on top. Great fighter.

Could he have lost to anyone? I'd say he could have lost to anyone with enough power to kayo him. The job of a champion is to fight hungry, hypermotivated challengers, fighters who are often hungrier and more determined. He didn't do it that night.
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But rahman wasnt a one punch knock out artist. And he was a way worse boxer than douglas.
 
Intermission said:
But rahman wasnt a one punch knock out artist. And he was a way worse boxer than douglas.
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doesn't matter, Lewis was not seen as a tyson and Lewis, again, already showed he really couldn't take a punch. Even the limited Bruno was fighting him to a standstill before his old issues of stamina and chin gave out.
 
mozfonky said:
doesn't matter, Lewis was not seen as a tyson and Lewis, again, already showed he really couldn't take a punch. Even the limited Bruno was fighting him to a standstill before his old issues of stamina and chin gave out.
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He took Shannon Briggs punches. And mercer. So he absolutely did show he could take a punch. I think his chin is really weird. You would think it's weak based on the losses but every other data shows it's solid.
 
Intermission said:
He took Shannon Briggs punches. And mercer. So he absolutely did show he could take a punch. I think his chin is really weird. You would think it's weak based on the losses but every other data shows it's solid.
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he took Tua's punches too, he still got kayoed two times in his career with not too much punishment. You can't name another great who lost like that, most greats take a lot more punishment before they lose. I guess Jersey Joes loss to Marciano would qualify but most of the great heavyweights don't lose on one punch. i struggle to think of one. Lewis was chinny and he knew it and wisely fought around his weakness.
 
mozfonky said:
he took Tua's punches too, he still got kayoed two times in his career with not too much punishment. You can't name another great who lost like that, most greats take a lot more punishment before they lose. I guess Jersey Joes loss to Marciano would qualify but most of the great heavyweights don't lose on one punch. i struggle to think of one. Lewis was chinny and he knew it and wisely fought around his weakness.
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But you assume it's his chin and not something else that made him susceptible to those two knockouts. isnt it possible if you are off balance or relax too much that you can get koed even though your chin is stellar?
 
Intermission said:
But you assume it's his chin and not something else that made him susceptible to those two knockouts. isnt it possible if you are off balance or relax too much that you can get koed even though your chin is stellar?
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i don't know, we have to go on what we saw, not with theories. He lost with very few punches on two occasions.

Lewis was humble enough to fight around his chin. When he fought Tyson, he knew how dangerous Mike was and he never really gave him anything to work with. Same for the Tua fight. Lewis claimed Tua caught him with a good punch but it couldn't have been all that great if he didn't shake. Doesn't really matter though, he proved himself as a great.
 
Intermission said:
did you not box yourself at different levels? cant you attest to the fact that posture affects punch resistance?
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lots of things effect it, even the simplest things like how you warm up before a fight. Anyone can get caught with a great punch. Out of all the heavyweight greats though, none that I know of were really kayoed like that. Joe Louis was kayoed when he was young by Schmeling but he took lots of punishment, including a fight changing punch after the bell. Ali, of course had a terrific chin and was never truly kayoed as a pro. Holmes had a reliable chin and great recuperative powers, Tyson had a terrific chin and he was kayoed several times, complete beat downs. Even Patterson, who is considered to have the worst chin of all heavyweight champs, even he was never taken out by one punch.
 
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