Was Nikolai Valuev a good boxer?

[650lb Sumo]

Nikolai Valuev was a two-time WBA champion (3 defences, then 1 defence) who retired with a record of 50 wins (34 (T)KOs), 2 losses and 1 NC. His 2 losses were by decision and he was never knocked down. The biggest named fighters he fought were Evander Holyfield (majority decision win, when Holyfield was 46) and his 2 losses, majority decisions to Ruslan Chagaev and David Haye. The Holyfield decision was controversial and was investigated.

Chagaev was pretty good - he won the WBA belt against Valuev and defended it twice before being stopped in round 9 by Wlad. He later fought Povetkin for the WBA belt and lost a decision. 3 years later he beat Fres Oquendo for the WBA belt and defended it once before being TKOed by Lucas Browne. Browne tested positive so Chagaev got the belt back but he never fought again.

David Haye needs no introduction - he (and Holyfield) were top 5 all time cruiserweights before moving up to HW. He went 7-3 at HW, winning the WBA belt against Valuev on his 2nd outing and defending it twice before losing a decision to Wlad. He had another 5 fights at HW but they were lacklustre.

Interesting that the guys who gave Nikolai the most trouble were small (these are their weights when they fought Valuev):

Chagaev: 6'1", 228lbs, 74" reach
Haye: 6'3", 217lbs, 78" reach
Holyfield: 6'2½", 214lbs, 77½" reach

Valuev was 7' tall and weighed up to 328lbs with an 85" reach. Obviously this gave him a huge size and power advantage over his opponents. It seems that smaller, nippier fighters were his weakness, although it was close with 3 majority decisions. How far do you think his size got him and how good of a boxer was he technically?

He's listed as 96th all time HW here

https://sportsratings.typepad.com/fights/heavyweight-boxing-top-100-alltime-peak-rating.html

but I don't know how credible that list is, they have Fury at 17, Wilder at 75 and Usyk at 193.

 

[djacobox372]

He was good in that he could be that big and still go 12 without gassing out. That's impressive.

He was slow as hell, but he fought smart and disciplined. It's very hard to go up against a guy that big that doesn't either gas out or make stupid mistakes.

 

[Tatra]

For his sheer size, yes.

 

[Sinister]

Yes he was savvy technically. You dont come out of the system he did without a good technical base. But he would have been better served with less technical discipline.

 

[PBAC]

For the division at the time. He is one of the few legit contenders in that period where it's a real pity he didn't fight K2 regardless of rank.

He also represented a changeover in height divisions. 7 foot went from little more than a freak show for casuals to borderline the standard height. I think he'd be an interesting case study for athletic history. It was also the last time we got a true, or literal, David vs Goliath fight because it was becoming increasingly acceptable that giants would be the new norm for HW = David Haye the first 6'3 midget. They didn't even pull that stuff much with Usyk v Joshua.

 

[650lb Sumo]

Not only was he never knocked down, he was only wobbled once, by Haye (which was his last fight):

 

[Seano]

He had more going on than just being a big giant. He developed a style around it. Good jab. I mean, no one is going to remember the guy as one of the greats but he did beat some competent opponents in his run.

 

[Sinister]

Not only was he never knocked down, he was only wobbled once, by Haye (which was his last fight):

IMO be should have been less concerned with proving to everyone he was skilled and started his fights more like Haye did there. He would have been much more effective over the course of a fight

 

[SandisLL]

IMO be should have been less concerned with proving to everyone he was skilled and started his fights more like Haye did there. He would have been much more effective over the course of a fight

During last years of his career he had problems with joints and tendons ....and still........

 

[Hagler]

He had more going on than just being a big giant. He developed a style around it. Good jab. I mean, no one is going to remember the guy as one of the greats but he did beat some competent opponents in his run.

Top 10 ATG, easy.

 

[Blastbeat]

Yes he was savvy technically. You dont come out of the system he did without a good technical base. But he would have been better served with less technical discipline.

ever since i first saw Valuev clips i thought to myself "this guy is a fuckin mountain of a man! why doesnt he use his size more?"
if he could have fought similarly to how Tyson Fury fights now while staying technical he couldve gone 50-0 i think. just a physical freak in terms of size and reach

 

[Sinister]

ever since i first saw Valuev clips i thought to myself "this guy is a fuckin mountain of a man! why doesnt he use his size more?"
if he could have fought similarly to how Tyson Fury fights now while staying technical he couldve gone 50-0 i think. just a physical freak in terms of size and reach

Exactly. From articles I recall reading about Valuev I'd say how he was treated throughout his life took a toll on him. He had a very distinct "I'm not a monster, I'm a man" mentality in a Sport where "I AM a monster" would have served him much better.

 

[Seano]

Top 10 ATG, easy.

 

[mozfonky]

isn't he the guy that a 40 old washed up holyfield apparently beat?

 

[Seano]

isn't he the guy that a 40 old washed up holyfield apparently beat?

I thought Evander did enough to win a close decision.

 

[mozfonky]

I thought Evander did enough to win a close decision.

You're not alone. I didn't see it or most of the fights of the waning years of Evander's career. I just looked briefly at the kayo of Frans Botha and Evander looked pretty good in what I saw. Maybe what he said about his injuries had some truth to it, I always thought he was kinda a flake who made excuses for his bad performances.

 

[Sinister]

You're not alone. I didn't see it or most of the fights of the waning years of Evander's career. I just looked briefly at the kayo of Frans Botha and Evander looked pretty good in what I saw. Maybe what he said about his injuries had some truth to it, I always thought he was kinda a flake who made excuses for his bad performances.

Evander or Valuev?

 

[SandisLL]

Valuev problems weren't injuries in general.
He really had joints and tendons problems and later had some surgery....
With Valuev was possible to sell tickets in 11? countries, including even Switzerland...
He wasn't poor and not likely needed excuses....belt or no, he is giant size and therefore tickets might been sold well and for good price.....

 

[SandisLL]

Evander or Valuev?

I had scored Valuev vs Holyfield for Evander as close decision win...
While problems there also might had been cos their size dif and judges not always might see all activity like we see from recorded stuff in cameras...

 

[Sinister]

Valuev problems weren't injuries in general.
He really had joints and tendons problems and later had some surgery....
With Valuev was possible to sell tickets in 11? countries, including even Switzerland...
He wasn't poor and not likely needed excuses....belt or no, he is giant size and therefore tickets might been sold well and for good price.....

Maybe God was punishing him for his arrogance, eh? Lol