Was BROCK LESNAR's MMA wrestling overrated?

[Claude]

When you think about it, he was only able to completely dominate non wrestlers:

1-Mir- Non wrestler
2-Herring - Non wrestler (wrestled in his senior year, but he's mostly a striker)

3-Couture - Brock got 2 takedowns but couldn't hold him down. Got reversed and had to grab the fence at one point. Randy was also only 220 lbs.



4-Cain - Brock got 2 takedowns but couldn't hold Cain down for more than a few seconds. Cain on the other hand took him down, took his back and landed some good punches. Cain was also around 20 lbs smaller.

5-Carwin- Brock failed 3 takedown attempts in the 1st round. He got dropped (by punches) and spent a good part of the round on his back. Brock was only able to take him down in the second round when Carwin was completely exhausted. Overall both seemed to be pretty even when they were fresh. Brock was just a lot less tired by the 2nd round.

6-Overeem- Non wrestler and couldn't take him down
7-Hunt - Non wrestler

For a guy who was over 265 lbs, had an extensive wrestling background and was on the juice, this was a bit overwhelming. Sure, he was able to take most of his opponents down, but against other wrestlers he wasn't nearly as dominant. There are plenty MMA fighters who don't have the same size advantage or the wrestling pedigree and do a lot better in the wrestling department.

Discuss.

 

[Drain Bamage]

It was pretty good for having no experience in MMA I guess...

 

[Klaavical]

His wrestling was good it was his gas tank that suffered

 

[Satan's Daddy.]

Joe Rogan, disagrees.

 

[lsa]

You are overrated

 

[pwforgotlolol]

he destroyed Cains shoulder with 1 takedown.

 

[Towerworld]

Id say hes appropriately rated, some on sherdog say he’s one of the greatest HW’s champions an equal number say he’s a total bum. Truth is somewhere in the middle like always, he was a decent champion with good(but not great) wrestling, alot of athletiscm and good top control but not much else.

Hes on the same level as guys like randleman or Prime mark coleman.

 

[Claude]

he destroyed Cains shoulder with 1 takedown.

Cain's joints can get destroyed by a breeze of air.

 

[kflo]

When you think about it, he was only able to completely dominate non wrestlers:

1-Mir- Non wrestler
2-Herring - Non wrestler (wrestled in his senior year, but he's mostly a striker)

3-Couture - Brock got 2 takedowns but couldn't hold him down. Got reversed and had to grab the fence at one point. Randy was also only 220 lbs.

View attachment 682277

4-Cain - Brock got 2 takedowns but couldn't hold Cain down for more than a few seconds. Cain on the other hand took him down, took his back and landed some good punches. Cain was also around 20 lbs smaller.

5-Carwin- Brock failed 3 takedown attempts in the 1st round. He got dropped (by punches) and spent a good part of the round on his back. Brock was only able to take him down in the second round when Carwin was completely exhausted. Overall both seemed to be pretty even when they were fresh. Brock was just a lot less tired by the 2nd round.

6-Overeem- Non wrestler and couldn't take him down
7-Hunt - Non wrestler

For a guy who was over 265 lbs, had an extensive wrestling background and was on the juice, this was a bit overwhelming. Sure, he was able to take most of his opponents down, but against other wrestlers he wasn't nearly dominant. There are plenty MMA fighters who don't have the same size advantage or the wrestling pedigree and do a lot better in the wrestling department.

Discuss.

He didn’t just try to hold randy down. He aggressively passed guard both times and randy escaped. He adjusted against mir and worked to establish control first.

We know you’re a hater of course....discuss...

 

[yekmurat]

Brock is one of those guys who cant take punch or kicks,after a few strikes he always turned off so he couldnt show his wrestling skills in the octagon properly,if he was mentally tougher he would do much better

 

[Claude]

He didn’t just try to hold randy down. He aggressively passed guard both times and randy escaped. He adjusted against mir and worked to establish control first.

We know you’re a hater of course....discuss...

He landed in half guard both times. Randy just did a great job and used the cage to improve his position and escape.

Also, I love Brock.

 

[BRASIL WAND]

BRASIL WAND REDPILL TIME:


Everything you just spewed is incorrect.

I wasn’t the biggest Brock fan but you’d have to be completely ignorant on the sport to discredit his wrestling skills.

1. 2x Division 1 NCAA champ. He would’ve gone on to the Olympics if the WWE hadn’t thrown all that money at him.

2. The only knock you could possibly have on his grappling is that he didn’t really start MMA till he was like 30 so he didn’t compliment it with BJJ positional awareness and transitions for better control but for a one dimensional Heavyweight he was PHENOMENAL.

3. He’s one of only two people in UFC history to takedown Cain. (Werdum being the other one, and DC even admitted that he had deceptively great takedowns and he himself got taken down when they rolled).

4. Carwin was a D2 Champ and he got taken down, controlled, and submitted. The ONLY man who finished Carwin in MMA.

5. MANY people don’t know that Mir was a HS State Champ in wrestling. He’s also a legit Black Belt and chose to pursue MMA instead of collegiate wrestling.

 

[pwforgotlolol]

Brock Lesnar is the Deontay Wilder of MMA ... late start, champ and lost.

Oritz will knock him the fuck out

 

[Blayt7hh]

His wrestling is basically what was responsible for all of his success. You even listed a bunch of times he got takedowns but couldn’t make them work. It was his lacking in other areas that cost him fights.

and yeah Overeem isn’t a wrestler, but I consider him to be one of the most technical and skilled fighters of all time

 

[Claude]

BRASIL WAND REDPILL TIME:


Everything you just spewed is incorrect.

I wasn’t the biggest Brock fan but you’d have to be completely ignorant on the sport to discredit his wrestling skills.

1. 2x Division 1 NCAA champ. He would’ve gone on to the Olympics if the WWE hadn’t thrown all that money at him.

2. The only knock you could possibly have on his grappling is that he didn’t really start MMA till he was like 30 so he didn’t compliment it with BJJ positional awareness and transitions for better control but for a one dimensional Heavyweight he was PHENOMENAL.

3. He’s one of only two people in UFC history to takedown Cain. (Werdum being the other one, and DC even admitted that he had deceptively great takedowns and he himself got taken down when they rolled).

4. Carwin was a D2 Champ and he got taken down, controlled, and submitted. The ONLY man who finished Carwin in MMA.

5. MANY people don’t know that Mir was a HS State Champ in wrestling. He’s also a legit Black Belt and chose to pursue MMA instead of collegiate wrestling.

1-I'm talking about MMA wrestling
2-Neither did Randy or Cormier.
3-He was a lot bigger and couldn't do much. Cain did better in the wrestling department.
4-Already adressed this. It was in the 2nd round when Shane was completely exahusted.
5-Mir is far from an elite wrestler.

Cheers.

 

[ImNotMirsadBektic]

Literally all of his success he owed to his wrestling (and size) and you’re saying it’s overrated lol.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Uhhhh no.

 

[Claude]

His wrestling is basically what was responsible for all of his success. You even listed a bunch of times he got takedowns but couldn’t make them work. It was his lacking in other areas that cost him fights.

and yeah Overeem isn’t a wrestler, but I consider him to be one of the most technical and skilled fighters of all time

I'd say it was mostly his massive size advantage. He didn't seem to be a much better wrestler than Couture.

 

[Claude]

Literally all of his success he owed to his wrestling (and size) and you’re saying it’s overrated lol.

Read above.

Also, success is a strong word to describe a 5-3 career.

 

[AndrewGolota48]

Yes, but only in the sense that it wasn't invincible. Couture and Cain are extremely high level wrestlers as well, even if they are smaller.

Cain finished as high as 4th place in D1, in a totally different year than Brock, so in a pure wrestling match that's pretty much a wash, much less in an MMA cage where Cain can utilize all his other advantages.

Carwin was a D2 national champ, and again inside an MMA cage where Carwin had a huge power and striking advantage, it's not a shock that Brock struggled to take him down.

Brock sure did have mindblowing cardio for a man his size.

Brock looked like he evolved a lot by the Hunt fight also, he reminded me of a giant white Phil Davis in some ways, super good defense, hard to hit, and well-timed takedowns.