Use of the half nelson when having back control.

[Grappleboxing]

Does anyone use a half nelson when they have back control of someone? I saw someone with a wrestling base achieve back control on someone, and used a half nelson to turn the guy he was rolling with.

The wrestler caught a rnc in transition with the free hand.

What do you think of this use, and are there other uses for half/full nelsons when in back mount?

 

[ijustwannasurf]

The judo club I train with uses them a lot, mainly to flatten people out as they escape the back. I like it; it connects right into a kimura grip or arm triangle, which are my best attacks from the back.

 

[Mike Piekarski]

I use it all the time, great control position

 

[Sumbog]

Ok correct me if I'm wrong but I do believe full nelsons are illegal in ibjjf and maybe half nelsons as well. But as an overall tool in grappling they are extremely useful for positional dominance.

For clarification of why I believe they are illegal, it is because they may fall under neck manipulation like a crank.

 

[D1wrestla]

I use it to either go for an armbar from the back or a twister if you have one hook on the opposite side

 

[Harukaze]

Great way to set up katahajime in judo. I love it.

 

[Shemhazai]

Power half nelson is great for taking the back from a single (bottom) hook situation, or just stopping the opponent from turtling away. Roger uses it quite a bit.

And no, the half nelson is not illegal, only the full nelson.

 

[snakeybizz]

fuck half nelson, why is the full nelson never used

asked a few people...typically answer is "I dunno"

 

[The Colonel]

I typically use half nelsons to breakdown guys from turtle.

From back control, especially with either one or two hooks in, I'm a much bigger fan of the power nelson. It is great for turning people.

 

[KJGould]

fuck half nelson, why is the full nelson never used

asked a few people...typically answer is "I dunno"

I can tell you why it became illegal in wrestling, if you're interested, based on the anecdotal reasons of Catch Wrestler Tommy Heyes (one of the last living students of Billy Riley).

 

[almann1979]

I can tell you why it became illegal in wrestling, if you're interested, based on the anecdotal reasons of Catch Wrestler Tommy Heyes (one of the last living students of Billy Riley).

I'm interested?

 

[KJGould]

I'm interested?

Heyes referred to a couple of reasonably well known incidents in wrestling history where a couple of wrestlers actually died from the full nelson when they had their necks broken by the move. In particular it was the way the hold was applied.

A variety of nelsons in wrestling are used for turns and pinning opponents, and the full nelson version of this from the back (turtled) used as a pin worked in much the same way as a crucifix neck crank.

If anyone is familiar with a Japanese Neck Tie, which is similar to a 3/4 nelson pin, it was the full nelson version of the pin that killed these two wrestlers. Heyes explained that at least with a 3/4 nelson pin there's a bit of room to manouveur so the pressure isn't as great, but the full nelson pin is full on pressure on that part of the cervical vertabrae.

So the illegal full nelson pin would look similar to the still legal 3/4 pin, that looks like this:

Riding the leg to stop a roll out, but with a full nelson not a 3/4. You can just see how tight that looks and how messed up your neck could be. Just a full nelson grip isn't going to do as much damage as this type of compression.

 

[almann1979]

Thanks. That looks nasty!!

I have a phobia about my neck!!!

BTW, I have met Tommy heyes, about 15 months ago.

He never told me who he was or how influencial he was. He never mentioned anything about his reputation.

I am ashamed now that I saw him as only a very friendly old man.