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US women in military Combat

As long as women are forced into signing up for selective service as men are now, I'm all for women in forward combat roles.
 
In theory I'm for it as long as they have to do and pass all the same things a man does.

However, I think every military guy I've ever spoken to (I'm not one), is pretty dead set against it. They know something I don't know, so I'll defer to them.

No womenz in combat.
 
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if there is a draft, can women get drafted? or is it strictly volunteer?
 
KidKrav said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...emale-recruits-fail-to-do-three-pull-ups.html
Click to expand...

Irrelevant. There are men in the AF, Navy, and probably the Army that can't do 3 pull-ups but still deploy. While it may be a requirement for Marines, it is not a general requirement to be deploy to a combat zone.

There are already women in combat situations and roles such as flying bombers, helos, and even convoy support and drivers, just not in traditional direct line-of-fire positions such as infantry or fighter pilots.

In fact, in regards to AH-64 Apache pilots, women may actually be safer pilots: http://time.com/8404/army-women-helicopter-pilots/
 
Saint Connor said:
Irrelevant. There are men in the AF, Navy, and probably the Army that can't do 3 pull-ups but still deploy. While it may be a requirement for Marines, it is not a general requirement to be deploy to a combat zone.

There are already women in combat situations and roles such as flying bombers, helos, and even convoy support and drivers, just not in traditional direct line-of-fire positions such as infantry or fighter pilots.

In fact, in regards to AH-64 Apache pilots, women may actually be safer pilots: http://time.com/8404/army-women-helicopter-pilots/
Click to expand...

So you are saying they (men) can
 
I was an Infantry Marine for 4 years with 3 combat tours. I say as long as the standards are equal(which they are not yet) then let them slowly get their feet wet to see how it plays out.

There are many factors to consider when talking about women in combat. Infantry all live in cramped close quarters, we often shower together and there won't be any special spots for the ladies while camping out in the desert in a combat zone or being held up in a house for 3 days. Many can handle it, but the political correctness of the US might try to create some impossible standard like giving a girl her own tent while the rest of us are crammed 3 per man.

Plus there is the relationship aspect. Girl and guy become attracted it can compromise a situation into focusing on protecting that person instead of doing your job and looking after the guy next to you. Plus the shitstorm if they were to become an item.

Plus, us infantry guys are pretty crude, there is much worry about sexual harassment and complaints due to a girl or two who made the cut surrounded by a bunch of asshole guys. Some girls will hack it mentally and physically, others(like many men) will make it through training but won't cut it mentally within the unit and(unlike the men who just go UA or Awol) women can make some pretty harsh circumstances with accusations alone, even if false.

And of course there are the real situations because some guys really are psychos.
 
If they can pass all of the same tests then there is nothing more to it.
 
Saint Connor said:
And that link is supposed to show me what? If you bothered to look at any of the requirement charts you would see 3 things: Push-ups, sit-ups, 2mi Run. See pull-ups anywhere in there? No? So what's the point again?
Click to expand...

Oops sorry it the Marines that require pull ups the army has slacked off.

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/blfitmale.htm


You know they changed chopper pilot qualifications because most all of the women could not meet the requirements.

They did away with the loss of hydraulics landing because women didn’t have the strength to do it.


However if they can pass the same test and liven in the same conditions then they should allowed but this includes regressing for the draft.
 
KidKrav said:
Female standards are lower for the things you listed here too bud... And if you don't think combat units in all four branches of the military are expected to perform pull ups and are rejected for poor performances, regardless of the official standard, you really are clueless.

A male combatant is expected to exceed the minimum standards by a significant margin. Females are having problems reaching the male minimum standard, and this doesn't even touch on the logistical issues of mixing sexes in a stress combat zone.
Click to expand...

I realize that, but I was talking specifically in reference to the pull-ups article/argument. Not PFT as a whole.

But I am in agreement with the rest of you, as long as the requirements are the same, I'm fine with it.

But the question comes, how do you manage it? Do you change the PFT requirements for certain jobs, or do you change it force wide just to accommodate, or rather, justify, the few?
 
KidKrav said:
And if you don't think combat units in all four branches of the military are expected to perform pull ups and are rejected for poor performances, regardless of the official standard, you really are clueless.
Click to expand...

To address this specifically, it depends on the job. In the Air Force as intel, I may deploy with the Army kicking in doors or whatever, but pull-ups will not be required of me. But if I was say, a CCT or SERE, it would be a different story.
 
BB in Crazy!!!! said:
I was an Infantry Marine for 4 years with 3 combat tours. I say as long as the standards are equal(which they are not yet) then let them slowly get their feet wet to see how it plays out.

There are many factors to consider when talking about women in combat. Infantry all live in cramped close quarters, we often shower together and there won't be any special spots for the ladies while camping out in the desert in a combat zone or being held up in a house for 3 days. Many can handle it, but the political correctness of the US might try to create some impossible standard like giving a girl her own tent while the rest of us are crammed 3 per man.

Plus there is the relationship aspect. Girl and guy become attracted it can compromise a situation into focusing on protecting that person instead of doing your job and looking after the guy next to you. Plus the shitstorm if they were to become an item.

Plus, us infantry guys are pretty crude, there is much worry about sexual harassment and complaints due to a girl or two who made the cut surrounded by a bunch of asshole guys. Some girls will hack it mentally and physically, others(like many men) will make it through training but won't cut it mentally within the unit and(unlike the men who just go UA or Awol) women can make some pretty harsh circumstances with accusations alone, even if false.

And of course there are the real situations because some guys really are psychos.
Click to expand...

These are the exact issues in the fire service as well.

And standards have been lowered to attract females in my city. It sounds lovely to the PC crowd, but it's making our dept. weaker. Not only has it brought in women who are physically incapable of many things, a lot of the men who make it are not able.

Our academy used to be so rigorous, there is no way a female could make it through. It was tough for a reason, to weed out weak individuals, physically and mentally. Now, our academy is so regulated, my mom could pass.
 
Dont women already serve onboard naval combat vessels, flew fighter planes, and bombers, and attack helicopters, and tanks and such.
 
If the women don't pass watered down standards and their bodies can handle it as well, then why not? But that's not how it will be in practice.
 
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