International UK mandatory ID cards?

[The Big Yin]

It wasn't bad luck. It was bad judgement.

Analysis: Could MI5 have stopped 7/7 bombers?

Could MI5 have stopped the 7 July London bombers? The inquests have been going through the key evidence in the public domain - and what each of these fragments means.

www.bbc.co.uk

That was one failing of the process in countless successes. The UK got so good at terror interception that AQ changed their method entirely to lone wolf knife & vehicle attacks - encouraging follows in their magazine called Inspire to not contact anyone or to express the views online so as to avoid detection before carrying out an attack.

MI5 underwent radical reform following the Peter Wright scandal

 

[KnightTemplar]

That was one failing of the process in countless successes. The UK got so good at terror interception that AQ changed their method entirely to lone wolf knife & vehicle attacks - encouraging follows in their magazine called Inspire to not contact anyone or to express the views online so as to avoid detection before carrying out an attack.

MI5 underwent radical reform following the Peter Wright scandal

One failing? They failed to stop the 21/7 bombers. The only reason there wasn't another mass casualty attack is the bombers fucked up and the IED's didn't detonate.

They failed to stop the Manchester Arena Bomber as well. 22 Innocent people, the majority of them teenagers or children, spread all over the fucking walls.

MI5 are better than the Met but Christ, that's the lowest of bars to pass.

 

[The Big Yin]

One failing? They failed to stop the 21/7 bombers. The only reason there wasn't another mass casualty attack is the bombers fucked up and the IED's didn't detonate.

They failed to stop the Manchester Arena Bomber as well. 22 Innocent people, the majority of them teenagers or children, spread all over the fucking walls.

MI5 are better than the Met but Christ, that's the lowest of bars to pass.

21/7 and Manchester arena were 12 years apart. In-between them you had lone wolf attacks that are virtually impossible to stop without credible intel.

If you think every single attack can be stopped then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[KnightTemplar]

21/7 and Manchester arena were 12 years apart. In-between them you had lone wolf attacks that are virtually impossible to stop without credible intel.

If you think every single attack can be stopped then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

As are you, if you think the Funny People are a justification for introducing digital ID cards. I have the same faith in their expertise as I do any other branch of government.

 

[The Big Yin]

As are you, if you think the Funny People are a justification for introducing digital ID cards. I have the same faith in their expertise as I do any other branch of government.

I'm not really getting your point.

I've attempted to explain to you that the security services in the UK are not an incompetent outfit. You've then somehow linked that to the argument for ID cards to prevent illegal immigration. It's not.

You may think the SyS and Special Branch are on the same level as the blue haired officers going and threatening people for tweets, but they are a very different dangerous and formidable Animal.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I'm not really getting your point.

I've attempted to explain to you that the security services in the UK are not an incompetent outfit. You've then somehow linked that to the argument for ID cards to prevent illegal immigration. It's not.

You may think the SyS and Special Branch are on the same level as the blue haired officers going and threatening people for tweets, but they are a very different dangerous and formidable Animal.

They are especially dangerous to victims of child abuse.

Cyril Smith - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[IanEdwards]

I'm just talking about the crimes I care about. My kids or wife being raped or my elderly parents being stabbed and robbed. And those are the kind of crimes that will continue to skyrocket and those are also the type of crimes that will get the general public to agree to massive surveillance.

I can only speak for the UK context but I *believe* this applies to the US as well, the horrific violent crimes you describe are *not* skyrocketing even if the perception is that they are. I'm pretty sure I have read near-identical studies in the UK and US regarding the disparity between perception of crime and actual crime being lower but stand to be corrected on the US

I don't believe the ID cards are remotely intended to control crime on that level in any case In many cases, violent criminals are going to violent crime (often on each other and not normal law-abiding citizens in any case, although robberies significantly contradict that) regardless. It's much more about taxes, the black economy, etc.

I'm instinctively against them.

 

[IanEdwards]

Are they having trouble with that right now?

The level of whining from European right wingers here about illegal immigrants is absolutely staggering. Our friend @Croo67 has an autistic-like focus on this, for example.

This seems like it could help with this issue. Don't have your ID card? You're here illegally.

Yeah its one of those, kind of, testing-ground policies where someone's own agendas might be mutually contradictory. My feeling is that a good proportion of the 'anti-immigration' zealots are also fundamentally against, and very distrustful of, the 'Government Surveillance State', largely assuming that it is a symptom of an authoritarian, Nanny State type deal that would be characteristic of Extreme Left gov'ts. In the UK at least I'm not sure they would be entirely right there as the tories brought in several policies/had a general attitude that tended in that direction (a minor example but they tried to bring in quarterly filing of taxes for self-employed people, like once a year isn't enough? cunts), but I believe there is a fundamental ideological fissure that the ID cards would need to be able to bridge, between 'right wing people who want to control immigration and violent crime' and 'right wing people with 'libertarian' leanings' who are distrustful of the Big State and its powers.

Like I say I'm instinctively against (and I don't fit in either of the above categories)

If anything I feel like Starmer is using immigration as a wedge on this one and almost daring people to accept ID cards or show that they are (apparently) not really serious about immigration

Being British, there should also be a necessary scepticism, that we do huge IT projects very, very badly, and this will end up being hugely costly, and likely plagued with problems..

It is guaranteed that they will set an unrealistic timeframe to roll it out. It is guaranteed that they will have to move the goalposts on the timeline, but that it will still be rushed out early. It is guaranteed that in its infancy there will be what they will euphemistically describe as 'teething problems' which will involve people unable to pay their mortgages, people's entire digital existence vanishing and making them unpersons, etc etc.

Even under Labour I am sure some avaricious 'Private Partner' will be brought in to 'deliver' and will be given all sorts of people's data as a sweetener. What could go wrong?

 

[Ramon Antonio]

We can use digital id voluntiraly in the Netherlands. It's great. I can arrange most government related tasks from the comfort of my home. It's much faster, no waiting lines and all in all just great for efficiency. I get most of my government mail digitally too instead of paper.

I like there to be options though, especially for old people. In general it make sense though in a world that's always busy to automate a lot of stuff.

 

[ShadowRun]

 

[SandisLL]

We can use digital id voluntiraly in the Netherlands. It's great. I can arrange most government related tasks from the comfort of my home. It's much faster, no waiting lines and all in all just great for efficiency. I get most of my government mail digitally too instead of paper.

I like there to be options though, especially for old people. In general it make sense though in a world that's always busy to automate a lot of stuff.

Old ppl and simple dishwashers etc anyway often doesn't need to " communicate " with gubbermint more often than 1x per year or even not each year anyway.

So for them it is relatively useless " forced option ". Plus not all of them does have computers for example and this is reality, real life.


#
Ofc ppl using multiple documents on daily basis might assume that this is routine for everyone.
# Plus there is dependence from contracts you have etc.. where is stated how communication will be done etc.

I still have papers...physical too... enough...and to check e-mails etc.
digital signature isn't panacea at all.
However yeah, during koronka coronavirus lockdowns this stuff was one from things allowed to work remotely... for a lot of ppl.
# BTW still physical papers they too had to use not in rare cases.
Ofc cool stuff is videoconferences and group calls, too helped a l lot.


#

 

[SandisLL]

I don't agree with stuff that too much tools are installed on smartphone . ...not alone id's, payments options etc etc.

I use app + physical card plus ofc PIN codes ..etc additional stuff. For example control call from bank if unusual transfers and so on.

__
Another thing if that if you have payments options installed on smartphone , it isn't just paranoia or fear from hackers and data leaks etc.

Device might work and next moment not work. So simple. Maybe cos fall down on floor or simply hanged up...

Then if you don't have bank cards or cash...you have 0 cent with you. Can't pay.
So simple.

Also if you have card and service provider in this moment doesn't have steady internet connection during card authorization and payment process.... you again Can't pay. Doesn't makes sense how much you have in bank account.

So some portion of cash you should keep anyway...

If you don't agree, ask someone to drop you somewhere in large city , without cash, cards and smartphone.
After this get life lesson, easy first lesson for beginners.

 

[SandisLL]

Also for me is fun to believe that automatization and ML is without mistakes.

For example I had typed bank cards , shit typed bank cars, so I had to edit post in order to get " bank cards " ' typed '.
And it isn't AI or translation soft, just input assistant....
It is suggested to predict what I want to type .. ...Jesus.

 

[Wrath of Foamy]

I'd take the one on the left. The one on the right looks like a boxer.

 

[The_Renaissance]

I'd take the one on the left. The one on the right looks like a boxer.

Definitely not a male one either innit.

Right?

Definitely not right?