Ufc vs Pride HW evolution 1998

[FKA]

UFC and Pride had only a few shows in 98 so it's easier to compare so let's dive in.


PRIDE HW ROSTER 1998

Igor Vovchanchyn(31-2)top HW
Mark Kerr(7-0)hot rising fighter
Gary Goodridge(7-5)Ufc vet mid tier
Pedro Otavio(13-4)mid tier
Emmanuel Yarborough(1-1)jobber
Hugo Duarte(5-1)touted prospect fresh off first loss in UFC
Akira Shoji(1-1-2)pro wrestler
Nobuhiko Takada(0-1)Pro wrestler
Alexander Otsuka(0-2)pro wrestler
Kyle sturgeon(0-0)jobber
Amir Rahnavardi(0-0)debut in mma
Naoki sano(0-0)pro wrestler


5 legit hws,3 mid tier pro wrestler transitioners,4 jobber.




UFC HW ROSTER 1998

Kimo leopaldo(7-2-1)mid tier vet
Mark Coleman(6-1)rising mid tier
Pete Williams(7-1)top HW
TK(12-5)mid tier vet
Tank Abbott(7-6)jobber
Hugo Duarte(5-0)touted prospect
Mike Van Arsdale(3-0)touted prospect
Joe Pardo(1-1)jobber
Andre Roberts(1-0)jobber
Harry Moskowitz(2-4)jobber
Pedro Rizzo(5-0)rising mid tier


That's 6 legit hws,2 mid tier,4 jobber



My analysis....UFC wins 1998 but,the gap is closing in talent and it will be interesting to see the progression.



Next is 1999......

 

[manboy<3]

Vovchanchyn was done in 1998 due to injuries accumilated in his long Vale Tudo career where he fought without gloves as well as his Kickboxing Career

we never got to see Prime Igor in PRIDE so he was a Top HW only on paper like when Fedor signed with Strikeforce he was the #1 heavyweight but only on paper

Also it's unfair to consider Otsuka a Jobber

 

[FKA]

Igor was not 100% but he went on to fight at a high level for years after he was far from done.

My analysis of otsuka placed him in the mid tier pro wrestling transfers not a jobber.

 

[NHB7]

Shoji’s career ultimately tanked, but when he first started I remember him seeming like he had a lot of potential when he was 8-3-5 at one point with wins over Wallid Ismael, Mezger and Ebenezer Fontana Braga.

 

[PancraseForever]

Fuck yes Igor.

 

[The Big Babou]

Good analysis TS.

I agree, we never got too see the best of Igor while he was in Pride.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Shoji’s career ultimately tanked, but when he first started I remember him seeming like he had a lot of potential when he was 8-3-5 at one point with wins over Wallid Ismael, Mezger and Ebenezer Fontana Braga.

Shoji, Matsui,Takase,Otsuka,Inoue...etc... all badasses..tough to submit, tough to armbar...

 

[cookdaddy]

This comparison is going to get laughable in the mid 2000s.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

UFC and Pride had only a few shows in 98 so it's easier to compare so let's dive in.


PRIDE HW ROSTER 1998

Igor Vovchanchyn(31-2)top HW
Mark Kerr(7-0)hot rising fighter
Gary Goodridge(7-5)Ufc vet mid tier
Pedro Otavio(13-4)mid tier
Emmanuel Yarborough(1-1)jobber
Hugo Duarte(5-1)touted prospect fresh off first loss in UFC
Akira Shoji(1-1-2)pro wrestler
Nobuhiko Takada(0-1)Pro wrestler
Alexander Otsuka(0-2)pro wrestler
Kyle sturgeon(0-0)jobber
Amir Rahnavardi(0-0)debut in mma
Naoki sano(0-0)pro wrestler


5 legit hws,3 mid tier pro wrestler transitioners,4 jobber.




UFC HW ROSTER 1998

Kimo leopaldo(7-2-1)mid tier vet
Mark Coleman(6-1)rising mid tier
Pete Williams(7-1)top HW
TK(12-5)mid tier vet
Tank Abbott(7-6)jobber
Hugo Duarte(5-0)touted prospect
Mike Van Arsdale(3-0)touted prospect
Joe Pardo(1-1)jobber
Andre Roberts(1-0)jobber
Harry Moskowitz(2-4)jobber
Pedro Rizzo(5-0)rising mid tier


That's 6 legit hws,2 mid tier,4 jobber



My analysis....UFC wins 1998 but,the gap is closing in talent and it will be interesting to see the progression.



Next is 1999......

Lots of names...

Pete Williams, b4 his win over Coleman, a top HW?

Duarte... overrated

Kyle sturgeon... never was a MMA fighter.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Ufc wins pre 2000

 

[JacJeanFinger]

In 1998, PRIDE was already No.1 promotion in the world in terms of HW. There is no question or argument about it.

1998 was the year RINGS/PANCRASE(both were superior organizations to UFC back then) decided to go full MMA. UFC HW champ was defeated in Shooto.

MMA business was revolving around Tokyo and UFC was dominated by fighters from Japanese scenes (Bus Rutten-Pancrase, Frank Shamrock-Pancrase, Kosaka-RINGS,)

PRIDE was entertainment oriented and that's the reason it didn't win the legitimate recognition as a sport event like SHOOTO and UFC. I still remember watching PRIDE 3 (1998) with Gono and Rumina Sato sitting next to each other across an isle from where I was. They burst into laughter when they saw a "questionable" submission ending one main card fight, saying "They worked it". This is something UFC or SHOOTO were not promoting in their shows.

 

[FKA]

They may have had the recognition but the roster speaks for itself,the roster is very close with the UFC i wouldn't be mad if someone argued one roster over the other it was pretty close in 98.

They both had jobbers,a few mid tier guys and a few established top guys it wasn't a landslide either way.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

In 1998, PRIDE was already No.1 promotion in the world in terms of HW. There is no question or argument about it.

1998 was the year RINGS/PANCRASE(both were superior organizations to UFC back then) decided to go full MMA. UFC HW champ was defeated in Shooto.

MMA business was revolving around Tokyo and UFC was dominated by fighters from Japanese scenes (Bus Rutten-Pancrase, Frank Shamrock-Pancrase, Kosaka-RINGS,)

PRIDE was entertainment oriented and that's the reason it didn't win the legitimate recognition as a sport event like SHOOTO and UFC. I still remember watching PRIDE 3 (1998) with Gono and Rumina Sato sitting next to each other across an isle from where I was. They burst into laughter when they saw a "questionable" submission ending one main card fight, saying "They worked it". This is something UFC or SHOOTO were not promoting in their shows.

Indeed...

BTW, regarding Pride 3, it´s not like [Rookie] Sturgeon was any potential prospect or somethin´...

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Ok, let's do a real comparison. (10)=GOAT, (1)=McDojo

UFC

Mark Coleman (7)- Previously exposed by Maurith Smith, he was in the losing streak that continued till 1999. His fame was already going down hard coming to this fight with lion's den's rising star with middle-easternish looks.

Jason David Abbot (6)- Tough without martial art training. He's from safe and cozy orange county where no black people live. His fighting style tells me he never had a chance to learn his striking sucks. He reminds me of a character from "Gold Rush".

Tsuyoshi Kosaka (6)- Judo fighters are known for stamina and that's his strength as well. His submission never impresses anyone. Striking sucks because he depends too much on his back muscle.

Pete Williams (6)- Versatile fighter who learned Pancrase techniques from the Shamrock brothers. Vernon and him could get a bit better if they had trained with the right people.

Pedro Rizzo(8)- He kept the same fighting style and hair style throughout his career and never forget he was royal to his original sensei until the retirement day. He sucked in K-1 though.

PRIDE

Mark Kerr (10)- Yuki Nakai "I thought Rickson Gracie was on the top of our food chain until I saw this guy" says it all. He was the first MMA professional ever to be considered "undefeatable".

Igor Vovchanchyn(10)- There's Igor and everybody else.

Marco Ruas (9)- He got stand-up, ground, looks, charisma all in one.

Rickson Gracie(8)- He was technically LHW, but he was fighting in absolute weight category. He finished 1998 with one huge win and no loss.

Gary Tagada (4)- see photo

 

[europe1]

Vovchanchyn was done in 1998 due to injuries accumilated in his long Vale Tudo career where he fought without gloves as well as his Kickboxing Career

I wouldn't say he was done. Yeah there's some wear and tear but Vovchanchyn was still at the top of his game when he entered Pride.

Compare, say, his first fight to Nick Nutter vs his fights against Mark Kerr. Igor got severely outwrestled against Nutter and outfought for much of the fight. Yet when he fought Kerr, he handled the wrestling-pressure a lot better against a guy that was both bigger, stronger and a better wrestler than Nutter. Vovchanchyn in Pride was still an evolving animal.

 

[manboy<3]

I wouldn't say he was done. Yeah there's some wear and tear but Vovchanchyn was still at the top of his game when he entered Pride.

Compare, say, his first fight to Nick Nutter vs his fights against Mark Kerr. Igor got severely outwrestled against Nutter. Yet when he fought Kerr, he handled the wrestling-pressure a lot better against a guy that was both bigger, stronger and a better wrestler than Nutter.

Igor always had amazing wrestling defense probably the best natural (untrained ) wrestling defense ever so for me it was no suprise when he fought Kerr..The first man to stop Kerr after all (and not Fujita)

I should add I heard a commentator mention that Igor has more MMA wins against BJJ black belts than any other fighter..that + him stopping Kerr is a pretty amazing accomplishment for a kickboxer

His hands were done though and he became more of a counter Puncher because of it..I think Vovhancyn entering PRIDE was similar to when Fedor started fighting in the United States..Still top but quickly declining from injuries..

In 1998, PRIDE was already No.1 promotion in the world in terms of HW. There is no question or argument about it.

1998 was the year RINGS/PANCRASE(both were superior organizations to UFC back then) decided to go full MMA. UFC HW champ was defeated in Shooto.

MMA business was revolving around Tokyo and UFC was dominated by fighters from Japanese scenes (Bus Rutten-Pancrase, Frank Shamrock-Pancrase, Kosaka-RINGS,)

PRIDE was entertainment oriented and that's the reason it didn't win the legitimate recognition as a sport event like SHOOTO and UFC. I still remember watching PRIDE 3 (1998) with Gono and Rumina Sato sitting next to each other across an isle from where I was. They burst into laughter when they saw a "questionable" submission ending one main card fight, saying "They worked it". This is something UFC or SHOOTO were not promoting in their shows.

Why do you hate Gary Goodrich ? Is it cause he sent Oleg to another dimension ?

 

[FKA]

My breakdowns consist of F ighters who fought in a HW fight that year so you had to compete to be counted.

 

[europe1]

Igor always had amazing wrestling defense

Nah. One might call it good or decent but Igor got taken down far, FAR to many times for it to be considered amazing. Hell, practically everyone took him down. But as I said -- his TDD improved over time. The Igor that fought Mark Kerr was a lot better at dealing with wrestling than the one who fought Nick Nutter. That still didn't mean he had amazing TDD though.

the best natural (untrained ) wrestling defense ever

Well... it wasn't untrained. He did train with Sambo guys for a while. And based on technique (grapping underhooks and such) he must have had some schooling. Igor did train it -- he just didn't have a base in it or train in a time-period where you did a lot of cross-training at all.

His hands were done though and he became more of a counter Puncher because of it

Igor was quite liberal about switching between counterstriking and aggresive striking throughout his carrer. Even in some of his earliest matches he played quite a bith of the countergame. That said, I can't really think of him becoming more of a counterstriker later in his career. Even in quite late matches like vs Bob Schrijber he was still comming forward a lot.

Still top but quickly declining from injuries..

I'm uncertain where to place Igor's decline. I think it might have been after Rampage injured him with a slam in 2012.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Igor always had amazing wrestling defense probably the best natural (untrained ) wrestling defense ever so for me it was no suprise when he fought Kerr..The first man to stop Kerr after all (and not Fujita)

I should add I heard a commentator mention that Igor has more MMA wins against BJJ black belts than any other fighter..that + him stopping Kerr is a pretty amazing accomplishment for a kickboxer

His hands were done though and he became more of a counter Puncher because of it..I think Vovhancyn entering PRIDE was similar to when Fedor started fighting in the United States..Still top but quickly declining from injuries..





Why do you hate Gary Goodrich ? Is it cause he sent Oleg to another dimension ?

"Igor has more MMA wins against BJJ black belts than any other fighter"

Actually:

Euclydes Pereira :

- 6 fights with Waldemar Santana ["adopted" by the Gracies]:
5 victories & 1 draw

- 1 fight with Carlson Gracie :
1 victory

 

[da best eva]

Heavyweight has always been shit in all promotions