How do you guys set up for this? I yank my opponent around a bit to off balance them, then I drop into the throw. It has gotten some success, but what are ways that have worked better for you guys? And any kind of drills to improve my tomoe nage? Also sometimes I find that I'm under my opponent, they are kind of just balancing on my leg. Do I just need to pull more? And do you guys do any sort of kuzushi for tomoe nage?
Tomoe Nage, Yoko Tomoe Nage
- Thread starter XDzard
- Start date
Watch and learn from the best, Katsuhiko Kashiwazaki.
The points he's making with the arms is that you always pull them forward, and not down into you. You can do what he's doing from a sitting position and see how mush easier is is to get someone up on your feet and over if you are pulling back and not down.
In general the best set up is to go from a push and having them push back, drop straight down under their body and get them up before they correct and pull back. Is someone good going to push into someone with good takedowns consistantly? No. But you can set it up with forward throws like O Uchi or a fake single into Tomoe.
The points he's making with the arms is that you always pull them forward, and not down into you. You can do what he's doing from a sitting position and see how mush easier is is to get someone up on your feet and over if you are pulling back and not down.
In general the best set up is to go from a push and having them push back, drop straight down under their body and get them up before they correct and pull back. Is someone good going to push into someone with good takedowns consistantly? No. But you can set it up with forward throws like O Uchi or a fake single into Tomoe.
Last edited:
This is a very primitive way of inducing a moment of opportunity for the throw, this won't work on intermediate to advanced Judoka.
Go back to first principles.
Solo drills and then progressively increasing partner drills
I understand why you would feel the need to ask if kuzushi is done in Tomoe nage, because this is the number one error with Tomoe nage, people just drop on their arse and don't use their hands at all.
Tomoe nage is a Judo throw, all Judo throws have kuzushi.
The kuzushi action for tomoe nage and yoko tomoe nage is the fundamental kuzushi action - tsurikomi:
TSURIKOMI
Note the very clear tsurikomi kuzushi action in this correctly performed Yoko tomoe nage
As opposed to the total absence of tsurikomi kuzushi action in this incorrectly performed Yoko tomoe nage
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 10,213
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2009
- Messages
- 447
- Reaction score
- 0
I like to use ko uchi O uchi combination before shooting for tomoe or yuko tomoe.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2009
- Messages
- 447
- Reaction score
- 0
ok.......................................
kouchi gari setups so many great attacks
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2010
- Messages
- 18,577
- Reaction score
- 5
I find that which leg I enter with depends a great deal upon their stance. It can be very hard to enter with the right leg when they have a strong left stance, just because there's not enough room to get the foot in. I think being able to execute the throw with either leg from either a right or left grip is very important to getting good at it.
As for setups, I like the side to side movements ala Kashiwazaki. Also, I often combo off an Osoto entry, and when they push back hit the Tomoe Nage.
As for setups, I like the side to side movements ala Kashiwazaki. Also, I often combo off an Osoto entry, and when they push back hit the Tomoe Nage.
Blue Streak
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
- Messages
- 1,859
- Reaction score
- 0
The biggest mistake beginners make with Tomoe Nage is sitting straight down or even falling backwards, when what you are actually supposed to do is fall under Uke while you keep him moving forwards. It is a circular throw, not a linear throw.
Also, your bent leg should come to place naturally on Uke's stomach. It is not intended to be a kick which you use to push Uke over you (although it can become that).
As for setups, O Soto Gari to Tomoe Nage is a nice one. However, anything that makes your opponent push against you will work.
Also, your bent leg should come to place naturally on Uke's stomach. It is not intended to be a kick which you use to push Uke over you (although it can become that).
As for setups, O Soto Gari to Tomoe Nage is a nice one. However, anything that makes your opponent push against you will work.
Thanks guys for the tips, I will try them out in practice and see how it goes. I'll watch the clips during the weekend when I have some time.
How does the ko uchi/o uchi to tomoe nage work? Do you go for the throw as they are stepping back to defend? Whenever I go for o soto gari, my opponents just move their leg back. I'm probably doing something wrong.
I use my right leg to guide them over me, and I do find that it's tough to execute when they have their right foot in front. I'm trying to move them to the right then go for the throw.
Yeah I realize that I just fall down on my ass, I don't fall under them, which I am working on improving. Ah maybe that's another problem, my leg is fairly straight when I hit the ground. so you fall with your leg bent, it comes in contact with the uke's stomach, then it straightens out as your pull uke over your head?
Also for the pull, do you guys find it's easier when you pull them over your head a bit, then pull back in towards your chest? (I'm not sure if that made any sense ><)
How does the ko uchi/o uchi to tomoe nage work? Do you go for the throw as they are stepping back to defend? Whenever I go for o soto gari, my opponents just move their leg back. I'm probably doing something wrong.
I use my right leg to guide them over me, and I do find that it's tough to execute when they have their right foot in front. I'm trying to move them to the right then go for the throw.
Yeah I realize that I just fall down on my ass, I don't fall under them, which I am working on improving. Ah maybe that's another problem, my leg is fairly straight when I hit the ground. so you fall with your leg bent, it comes in contact with the uke's stomach, then it straightens out as your pull uke over your head?
Also for the pull, do you guys find it's easier when you pull them over your head a bit, then pull back in towards your chest? (I'm not sure if that made any sense ><)
Blue Streak
Purple Belt
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2010
- Messages
- 1,859
- Reaction score
- 0
Assuming you are doing the throw migi, you want your left foot to be between Uke's feet, under his body. Drawing Uke forward and up (Tsuri Komi), you sit down with your arse as close to your left heel as possible. At the same time your draw your right knee up to your chest, this should cause your right foot to sit on Uke's abdomen as he goes over you. If you don't do it quite right, you can use this foot to help propel Uke over you. Your right leg will probably extend a bit as Uke goes over, anyway.
The important thing is to keep Uke moving up and over, not down onto you. A common mistake people make when learning this throw is that they pull Uke down onto themselves, rather than letting Uke's momentum carry him/her over the top of Tori.
The only time you ever do a Tomoe Nage entry with a completely straight leg is in certain versions of Yoko Tomoe Nage that are specifically used on opponents in deep, bent over stances and locked arms.
Dailymotion - Demontfaucon(FRA) - Yoko Tomoe Nage - une vidéo Sports & Extreme
You see lots of pictures of Tomoe Nage with straight legs, but that's because they are taken at the most photographically dramatic moment, at the last part where Tori (the thrower) kicks their leg after Uke (throwee) is already over them to get a powerful flip.
Enter with the leg bent, close their center of gravity, roll back and pull them constantly forward, never down, and only straighten the leg at the end to ensure a powerful flip.
Dailymotion - Demontfaucon(FRA) - Yoko Tomoe Nage - une vidéo Sports & Extreme
You see lots of pictures of Tomoe Nage with straight legs, but that's because they are taken at the most photographically dramatic moment, at the last part where Tori (the thrower) kicks their leg after Uke (throwee) is already over them to get a powerful flip.
Enter with the leg bent, close their center of gravity, roll back and pull them constantly forward, never down, and only straighten the leg at the end to ensure a powerful flip.
Last edited:
Yeh going in with a straight leg is another common error, you bend your leg and using your dropping/sutemi action together with the drawing out action of your kuzushi bring their hip onto your foot. You don't shove your foot in their hip and then drop as many beginners are want to do.
You always aim to pull them over your head, never try and pull them to your chest, this will just bend them over at the waist and help them crush your throwing leg down and kill all your power.
Ah, tried it out today, it did work a lot better when I stepped in between uke's legs, kept my leg bent until uke was going over, and was pulling over my head. I haven't quite gotten the kuzushi yet, but I will keep working on it. The problem I have now is pulling it off in randori. Usually when I go for the throw, my foot slips off the side and we end up in guard, or I end up on the floor looking at uke. Do I need to find a better angle/time to go into the throw?
Also I step in with my left foot, put my right foot on uke. Does my grip on uke matter?
Also I step in with my left foot, put my right foot on uke. Does my grip on uke matter?
You need to drill your way into it. The normal progression we take at our dojo is:
Static Uchi-Komi Not moving around or resisting (IE everything but the "Kake", the finish), just making sure the bare basics are in place. Work on getting Uke elevated on your foot but don't finish. Try to make it smooth and low effort.
Static line throws Get a crash pad if necessary and line up everyone, one guy throws everyone 1,2,3 times depending on # of people and then rotate. If with one partner throw them 5-6 time in succession and try to get a groove. Again no real resistance.
Moving Uchi Komi Some no-real-resistance from Uke, but now you have to do it on the move, which honestly can be a lot easier than doing it static. Depending on throw, practicing in all the cardinal directions (retreating, advancing, left, right, rotating) This often takes a while but is very, very informative. Using movement to your advantage is one of the Judoka's principle tools.
Nage Komi This is a very general part of the process where you finish the throw each time, on the move or with specific resistance from your partner. There's a specific word for using designated resistance, but I won't muddy the waters further. Start with full throws on the move with no real resistance, several in a row and switch roles. Then you can start to ask Uke to give you 20%, 40% etc resistance and not move on until you can regularly and smoothly overcome that resistance. You can also get specific and ask them to stiff arm and work to overcome that, or use movement instead of stiff-arming as much as possible. Maybe try it as part of a combination or counter now that you understand how to use the movement or resistance that will give you.
Randori Now you are ready to include it real live Randori.
It's not as "sexy" as diving into Randori right away and it definitely takes more time. But you learn a hell of a lot more and will have a far higher "hit ratio" in real competition. Not just that, but if I am having a hard time with a specific scenario in Randori, I take time out to Nage Komi it until I see where I need to adjust.
P.S. If you have a video camera, that's very nice to use. Pick some great examples of a throw and replicate them at about the same angle. You'll often be completely confused why you're not hitting it, then see the tape and it will be completely obvious. AKA "Holy crap, I am dropping my but two feet away from him, not right under him like it felt!"
Here's some Nage Komi from a couple of very good French judokas, they aren't working on a specific throw, but a family of related throws. You'll see that they aren't really resisting, just getting those timings down and looking for Debana (moment of opportunity)
Static Uchi-Komi Not moving around or resisting (IE everything but the "Kake", the finish), just making sure the bare basics are in place. Work on getting Uke elevated on your foot but don't finish. Try to make it smooth and low effort.
Static line throws Get a crash pad if necessary and line up everyone, one guy throws everyone 1,2,3 times depending on # of people and then rotate. If with one partner throw them 5-6 time in succession and try to get a groove. Again no real resistance.
Moving Uchi Komi Some no-real-resistance from Uke, but now you have to do it on the move, which honestly can be a lot easier than doing it static. Depending on throw, practicing in all the cardinal directions (retreating, advancing, left, right, rotating) This often takes a while but is very, very informative. Using movement to your advantage is one of the Judoka's principle tools.
Nage Komi This is a very general part of the process where you finish the throw each time, on the move or with specific resistance from your partner. There's a specific word for using designated resistance, but I won't muddy the waters further. Start with full throws on the move with no real resistance, several in a row and switch roles. Then you can start to ask Uke to give you 20%, 40% etc resistance and not move on until you can regularly and smoothly overcome that resistance. You can also get specific and ask them to stiff arm and work to overcome that, or use movement instead of stiff-arming as much as possible. Maybe try it as part of a combination or counter now that you understand how to use the movement or resistance that will give you.
Randori Now you are ready to include it real live Randori.
It's not as "sexy" as diving into Randori right away and it definitely takes more time. But you learn a hell of a lot more and will have a far higher "hit ratio" in real competition. Not just that, but if I am having a hard time with a specific scenario in Randori, I take time out to Nage Komi it until I see where I need to adjust.
P.S. If you have a video camera, that's very nice to use. Pick some great examples of a throw and replicate them at about the same angle. You'll often be completely confused why you're not hitting it, then see the tape and it will be completely obvious. AKA "Holy crap, I am dropping my but two feet away from him, not right under him like it felt!"
Here's some Nage Komi from a couple of very good French judokas, they aren't working on a specific throw, but a family of related throws. You'll see that they aren't really resisting, just getting those timings down and looking for Debana (moment of opportunity)
Last edited:
Latest posts
-
-
-
Rumored Daniel “D-Rod” Rodriguez reportedly imprisoned in Mexico- Latest: Mongoosemk12
-
