Tips and setups for Short Arm Scissors (Bicep Slicers)

awesome.


awesome to the max. I still want to try the bicep slicer off a failed kimura ala that other video you posted.
 
fourfif said:
of course... :icon_lol:
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This is what I've been told, and I'm fairly sure it;s right but welcome corrections for my other Catch peeps.

Your short-arm is the boney bit of forearm above your wrist and it is between the opponent's arm as you know. You lock it up and turn, like a Key in a Lock. Key Lock.

Short Arm Scissors should be fairly self-explanatory with this in mind :)
 
awesome video. i love bicep slicers because they're so sneaky. haven't pulled one off in training yet though.

one thing i noticed from the catch vids i've watched . . . how come it always looks like catch guys are hurting the crap out of the demo partner when showing a move? i'm just going by the way the demo partners always tap furiously and look like they're in excruciating pain.
 
It might just be shock, especially if it's a guy who has not felt it before and its at a seminar or something. I don't think most guys are really hurting each other badly because you'd run out of volunteers and training partners pretty fast. It's not as rough as it historically used to be, but likely rougher then what a lot of BJJ guys are used to.
 
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Is it my imagination, or do "catch wrestling" coaches enjoy the "pain" aspect more than other grapplers.

Eric Paulson
Josh Barnett
Gene LeBell
The guy in this video


All of them I've seen, they do moves and their partners always yelp the entire time. I dont think the ukes are pussies, so the guy doing the lock has to be really applying a lot of pressure. It's something you dont really see in Judo/sambo/BJJ sub demonstrations.

More like a korean grappling thing. And, yeah I see the irony of listing Judo guys as having softer submissions and putting Gene lebell in the same category as catch wrestlers.
 
LeBell did learn from Ed Lewis and Vic Christy though, and later from Lou Thesz and Karl Gotch.

I don't think they enjoy inflicting pain (at least the more current generation guys) just they will do a move fully but still have a modicum of control to stop going too far. They also use their bodyweight a lot more but that is no different from standard wrestling coaches I think.
 
My experience is that when you inflict pain, the opponent will react. Sometimes that's good, but sometimes it's sneakier to keep the guy confortable and clueless while you're setting up something.

A question for you though: I've personally never seen anybody tap from a short arm scissor in a grappling competition or MMA fight. Part of this is because people don't train them much, so they can't become proficient at them. But don't you think it might also be because they're a lower percentage technique than many other arm attacks? (i.e. armbars, kimuras, etc.)
 
Are bicep slicers legal in all grappling/BJJ comps?

I like to go for a bicep slicer off a failed omoplata. It's pretty sneaky, usually guys think they are safe until they suddenly tap out when I put the pressure on :)
 
fiftysvn said:
awesome video. i love bicep slicers because they're so sneaky. haven't pulled one off in training yet though.

one thing i noticed from the catch vids i've watched . . . how come it always looks like catch guys are hurting the crap out of the demo partner when showing a move? i'm just going by the way the demo partners always tap furiously and look like they're in excruciating pain.
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If you have been on this board long enough you might remember that most people considered this a "pain hold" only. No Knock on the BJJ guys on the forum but it wasn't until some guys started pulling off the technique in BJJ comps and practice that they realized, "WHOAH, this not only hurt, but now I am injured!"

So yes, they squirm because certain CACC holds, like this one, double as pain holds and submission holds that can actually do damage if they continue to increase the pressure.
 
knoxpk said:
If you have been on this board long enough you might remember that most people considered this a "pain hold" only. No Knock on the BJJ guys on the forum but it wasn't until some guys started pulling off the technique in BJJ comps and practice that they realized, "WHOAH, this not only hurt, but now I am injured!"

So yes, they squirm because certain CACC holds, like this one, double as pain holds and submission holds that can actually do damage if they continue to increase the pressure.
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didn't mean for my original comment to be a slight on cacc or anything. was just an observation.

i guess bjj is just gentler in that aspect. i've been taught bicep/calf slicers in my bjj class and the way it's done on the demo partner by our instructors is typically not as harsh. enough pressure applied so that the guy on the receiving end feels what it's like when it's locked in and it's let go pretty quickly after the first tap. i guess it's just applied more gently.

as far as slicers being pure pain holds . . . that's just ignorance on the part of any grappler who believes that. and i don't mean that in an insulting way. some people just don't know.

first time i ever had a bicep slicer done on me, i didn't really understand what was happening. he had it locked tight and i thought it was just an extremely uncomfortable position. my partner applied it pretty slowly and i don't remember if i eventually tapped or if he just let it go and transitioned to something else, but my bicep felt shredded for about two weeks. learned my lesson :icon_chee
 
fiftysvn said:
didn't mean for my original comment to be a slight on cacc or anything. was just an observation.

i guess bjj is just gentler in that aspect. i've been taught bicep/calf slicers in my bjj class and the way it's done on the demo partner by our instructors is typically not as harsh. enough pressure applied so that the guy on the receiving end feels what it's like when it's locked in and it's let go pretty quickly after the first tap. i guess it's just applied more gently.

as far as slicers being pure pain holds . . . that's just ignorance on the part of any grappler who believes that. and i don't mean that in an insulting way. some people just don't know.

first time i ever had a bicep slicer done on me, i didn't really understand what was happening. he had it locked tight and i thought it was just an extremely uncomfortable position. my partner applied it pretty slowly and i don't remember if i eventually tapped or if he just let it go and transitioned to something else, but my bicep felt shredded for about two weeks. learned my lesson :icon_chee
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I didnt take it as a slight at all.

I just dont think it was a sub used very highly at 1st for some of the reasons I mentioned above such as "pain hold"...It wasn't until the BJJ guys found out it was not just a pin hold that it got mainstream on this board, really the only reason I brought up BJJ in the 1st place is by sheer numbers this forum is very BJJ based and until the BJJ guys really see it and use it or experience it it stays low key, in no way did I mean to come off as if I am trying to slight BJJ either. You have been around a bit on this board, I am sure you remember the threads about slicers being low %...
 
there is a version where you pull these off with hands instead of hand and foot right ?
 
I like the 2nd to last bicep slicer variation. I'll either get the tap from the bicep slicer or sometimes their arm will pop out and I can hit the armbar.

The 2nd variation looks a little iffy to me. I'll play with it tonight.

The 1st is a throw away move, imo. I think a high percentage of the time the bottom guy is going to roll out of it. Kris does show a nice transition to a straight armbar but if the guy is going to escape the original sub attempt a great deal of the time I'd be more inclined to go for the armbar and if they still have their hands clasped then go for bicep slicer variation #3.
 
Someone once made the good analogy to a 'bicep slicer' as putting a brick in the join between a door and a door frame and then slamming the door shut as hard as you can. Possible result? Gouged door, blown hinges. That could potentially be your radius and / or ulna, and your elbow.

Respect the Short Arm Scissor!
 
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