The Super Fight - Muhammad Ali Vs Rocky Marciano

[mikezismike]

sorry if this was posted b4.

my friend shared it to me. decided to share it here.

The Super Fight was a fictional 1970 boxing match between Rocky Marciano and Muhammad Ali. At the time, Ali and Marciano were the only undefeated heavyweight champions in history and fans often debated who would win had they met in their primes.

Ali and Marciano were filmed acting out every possible scenario in a fight and the result was then determined using probability formulas entered into a computer.

The final fight was only shown once in selected cinemas around the world and later released as a DVD.

READ MORE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Super_Fight​

 

[zep]

It would have been seen as state of the art stuff in 1969. Funny, I thought Ali won the computer match-up. But watching the video above he gets KOed.

 

[consortium11]

It would have been seen as state of the art stuff in 1970. From memory Ali wins the computer match-up.

Marciano stopped him.

Ali also got smashed by Jim Jeffires according to the simulation... that's how the Superfight came about after Ali threw a bit of a hissy fit when he lost and demanded that he be matched up with Marciano (who had won the overall tournament, destroying Dempsey in the final).

There's a pretty good piece on it here; both the article and the comments are worth a read.

 

[chris herbert]

ali gets knocked out in the computer simulation as far as I remember. I dissagree with it and a computer can not be acurate when it comes to fight styles. its just a simulation so it doesnt prove anything.

 

[Confucamus]

Would love to have seen how it'd go in real life. Marciano is my boy, but I think Ali stops him on cuts to be honest.

 

[zep]

Marciano stopped him.

Ali also got smashed by Jim Jeffires according to the simulation... that's how the Superfight came about after Ali threw a bit of a hissy fit when he lost and demanded that he be matched up with Marciano (who had won the overall tournament, destroying Dempsey in the final).

There's a pretty good piece on it here; both the article and the comments are worth a read.

I hadn't realized there was a video in the original post until after I'd responded to it. I was updating my post as you quoted off it, as you'll see above.

In any case I've heard the computer fight referred to many times previously and for whatever reason had thought Ali won it.

The output is only as good as the input with these exercises.

 

[bigconan]

Anyone who has ever seen both men fight in their prime, understand this fight would be the biggest miss match in the history of boxing. Lets start with the fact that a 50+ yr old Archie Moore just about beat Rocky. Rocky barely won the title from Jersey Joe walcott with a punch in the final round after losing the entire fight. Not to mention, rocky fought in probably the weakest heavyweight division of all time. Oh, and the fact that rocky only weighed about 180lbs.

Now you have ali, Who fought at a time when the heavyweight division was at the strongest, of all time. You have absolute killers at that time. Sonny liston, Joe frazier, ken norton(whom ali fought well past his prime) And George foreman, who would have knocked Rocky out in one round. And Ali was a 220lb man.

Sonny Liston alone, was a far bigger, far more powerful fighter than rocky ever was. Sonny liston at the time was considered unbeatable. He was a destroyer. Ali came and made him look foolish. Ali in his prime, was so fast and so hard to hit it was unreal.

All that being said, Ali would have either stopped rocky or it would have been the worst beat down in the history of boxing.

 

[Double Impact]

I would have rather seen Liston fight Marciano. They weren't that far apart in age.

17" reach advantage for Liston.

 

[zep]

Anyone who has ever seen both men fight in their prime, understand this fight would be the biggest miss match in the history of boxing. Lets start with the fact that a 50+ yr old Archie Moore just about beat Rocky. Rocky barely won the title from Jersey Joe walcott with a punch in the final round after losing the entire fight. Not to mention, rocky fought in probably the weakest heavyweight division of all time. Oh, and the fact that rocky only weighed about 180lbs.

Now you have ali, Who fought at a time when the heavyweight division was at the strongest, of all time. You have absolute killers at that time. Sonny liston, Joe frazier, ken norton(whom ali fought well past his prime) And George foreman, who would have knocked Rocky out in one round. And Ali was a 220lb man.

Sonny Liston alone, was a far bigger, far more powerful fighter than rocky ever was. Sonny liston at the time was considered unbeatable. He was a destroyer. Ali came and made him look foolish. Ali in his prime, was so fast and so hard to hit it was unreal.

All that being said, Ali would have either stopped rocky or it would have been the worst beat down in the history of boxing.

I'm with you on an Ali win. It may even be why I had assumed they gave Ali the win in the simulated fight, because that's what my perceived outcome would have been.

 

[ELGUAP01]

I heard there is a version where Ali won. I think it was shown in uk or somewhere over there.

 

[ZroC]

I heard there is a version where Ali won. I think it was shown in uk or somewhere over there.

The funny thing is it's hard to tell some boxing fans that the fight was BS and there was no super computer.

 

[consortium11]

I heard there is a version where Ali won. I think it was shown in uk or somewhere over there.

To avoid spoiling the result they filmed footage of all possible endings... so there should be footage out there (although I've not seen it) where Ali stops Marciano.

 

[Seano]

Marciano stopped him.

Ali also got smashed by Jim Jeffires according to the simulation... that's how the Superfight came about after Ali threw a bit of a hissy fit when he lost and demanded that he be matched up with Marciano (who had won the overall tournament, destroying Dempsey in the final).

There's a pretty good piece on it here; both the article and the comments are worth a read.

It just goes to show how under appreciated great fighters are in their own time.

 

[consortium11]

It just goes to show how under appreciated great fighters are in their own time.

Indeed.

To be fair here however, this was relatively early in Ali's career. He had his two wins over Liston but beyond that his record lacks much of the depth we now take for granted... no Frazier trilogy, no Rumble in the Jungle etc etc. Outside of Liston his list of victims was Patterson, the ghost of Archie Moore and... well you're looking to the Cooper, Cleveland Williams, Chavulo level of opponents.

Perhaps the Cooper bout is key. With hindsight we can see Ali actually had a pretty damn hard chin. But at the time he'd barely been hit... and when Cooper, who was never the biggest of punchers, had hit him he'd gone down hard. While I don't agree with the conclusion I can just about see why at the time the idea of a come from behind Marciano stoppage win was an understandable idea.

 

[zep]

To avoid spoiling the result they filmed footage of all possible endings... so there should be footage out there (although I've not seen it) where Ali stops Marciano.

I bet Ali's home collection contains the Ali-friendly version.

 

[KounterPunch]

Racism ......pure n simple is why they had Ali loosing to them both.

 

[zep]

Racism ......pure n simple is why they had Ali loosing to them both.

"Punch-by-punch details of the boxer's records during their prime were entered into an NCR 315 computer. Also their strengths, weaknesses, fighting styles and patterns and other factors and scenarios that the boxers could go through were converted into formulas. This took place in early 1968; the NCR 315 was a state-of-the-art computer at the time".

...are you suggesting there was an input parameter for 'race' and that it played the biggest part in determining the NCR 315's fight outcomes?

 

[mozfonky]

I heard there is a version where Ali won. I think it was shown in uk or somewhere over there.

that's correct, the reason being is that he was more well liked overseas than at home. Two different endings for two different continents. I believe Marciano never lived to see the completion. Just look at the film though, completely updated heavyweight in Ali, look how much bigger he is. 185 vs 210-15.

 

[mozfonky]

Indeed.

To be fair here however, this was relatively early in Ali's career. He had his two wins over Liston but beyond that his record lacks much of the depth we now take for granted... no Frazier trilogy, no Rumble in the Jungle etc etc. Outside of Liston his list of victims was Patterson, the ghost of Archie Moore and... well you're looking to the Cooper, Cleveland Williams, Chavulo level of opponents.

Perhaps the Cooper bout is key. With hindsight we can see Ali actually had a pretty damn hard chin. But at the time he'd barely been hit... and when Cooper, who was never the biggest of punchers, had hit him he'd gone down hard. While I don't agree with the conclusion I can just about see why at the time the idea of a come from behind Marciano stoppage win was an understandable idea.

he hadn't finished building his legacy, true, but people really did wonder if he was "the Greatest", truth is no one had him figured out yet, and a lot of people still don't.

 

[mozfonky]

also tons of interesting stories about the happenings on the set. Rocky was really hitting Ali, and Ali told him that if he didn't stop he'd start throwing hard too. Marciano, for his part, thought Ali was intentionally trying to jab his toupee off and was angry about that. Marciano supposedly floored Ali with a body shot and Lou Duva ( I think) recalled Ali at a dinner lifting his shirt and showing welts. Angelo Dundee has an interview from a couple years ago where he says Marciano didn't like Muhammad. Ali came out of it with great respect for the Rock.