International The Space, Science, Technology thread: America back in space

Astronautix: Von Braun Mars Expedition

WvB Mars Mission Summary:

Propulsion: Nuclear Thermal
Braking at Mars: Propulsive
Mission Type: Opposition
Venus Swing-by: Yes
Split or All-Up: All Up
ISRU: No ISRU
Launch Year: 1981
Crew: 12
Mars Surface payload-metric tons: 5
Outbound time-days: 270 Mars
Stay Time-days: 80
Return Time-days: 290
Total Mission Time-days: 640
Total Payload Required in LEO-metric tons: 1452
Total Propellant Required-metric tons: 1088
Propellant Fraction: 0.74
Mass per crew-metric tons: 121
Launch Vehicle Payload to LEO-metric tons: 249
Number of Launches to Assemble in LEO: 6
Launch Vehicle: Saturn V-25(S)U


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I never knew about this one, wow.
 
@NoDak

A tribute to our 'Nazi' German friend who made it all possible for Americans to reach the moon. The Saturn V rocket.

Mr. Wernher von Braun

Fully fueled, the Saturn V weighed 6.5 million pounds:
 
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@NoDak

A tribute to our 'Nazi' German friend who made it all possible for Americans to reach the moon. The Saturn V rocket.

Mr. Wernher von Braun

Fully fueled, the Saturn V weighed 6.5 million pounds:


Yeah, I got one of those.

He was not only one of the greatest minds but visionaries in all of recorded human history, easily one of the most significant figures of the 20th Century and equally indispensable at different periods to both the Third Reich and post-war American hegemon during global conflicts on the scale and level of World War II and Cold War. Just think about that for a second, to be so god damn relevant that it could almost make Albert Einstein blush.

I'm not really bothered about the USSR's admittedly impressive list of 'first's in space' for a couple different reasons and the Space Age did not start with the USA nor USSR, but in Germany during the 1940s with rockets engineered by Von Braun himself.

The V-2 was the first man-made object to cross beyond the Earth's atmosphere as well as photograph it from outer space. The foundation of Soviet rocket program was dependent on V-2 technology and Sergei Korolev's initial R1/R2 rockets were just larger copycats with heavy assistance from engineers they had taken out of Germany as part of their own post-war spoils.



Not only that, but it's worth noting that Wernher von Braun was initially working for the Department of Defense upon immigration to the United States, he wasn't even transferred to NASA until after the Soviet Union had already successfully launched the first satellite and animal into low Earth orbit. Korolev was most definitely brilliant in his own right but a man-rated SHLLV rocket to the moon was and is still is on a completely different level and he was simply no match for WvB.



If all that weren't enough, he's also quite easily the most important and influential popularizer of space exploration in history with everything from numerous features he wrote in Colliers Magazine to his friendship with famed English science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke which in turn inspired creative talents on the caliber of Stanley Kubrick, Pink Floyd, David Bowie and Elton John among others, with works that have become timeless artistic contributions to western culture on the whole. Not to mention he also founded the National Space Institute which was the first non-profit space exploration advocacy group of its kind, later merged with the L5 Society and still going.

Look familiar?

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vonbraun_early_wheel_concept.jpg


He was awarded the National Medal of Science in 1975 and maybe even should've received the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work as a Civil Rights activist. It sounds like a complete joke, but the dude actually moved real weight and had an incredible amount of pull at the highest levels. It isn't as if he'd of been out of a job had NASA decided to move the Marshall facility out of Alabama due to its abhorrent record on race - he was the greatest aerospace engineer of all-time - WvB didn't have to do a damn thing.

Wv_B1.jpg

Wv_B2.jpg


God Tier Genius.

618px-S-IC_engines_and_Von_Braun.jpg
 
@NoDak

A tribute to our 'Nazi' German friend who made it all possible for Americans to reach the moon. The Saturn V rocket.

Mr. Wernher von Braun

Fully fueled, the Saturn V weighed 6.5 million pounds:


I wonder if he is the only Nazi, the Americans took for their knowledge of science and engineering. This one man can not possibly have done all that work himself.
 
One thing that we need to keep in mind as we now await pics from New Horizons from Ultima Thule.

New Horizons was launched 13 years ago. It took that probe 13 years to get where it is now. But the initial idea was actually some 26 years ago. And people did not start working on it until like 17 years ago.

This is why if space agencies like NASA or ESA do not receive proper funding now, we will see the negative impact (or non-impact) in and for many years to come.

The real reason is because it takes NSA, and ESA too long to get anywhere in the solar system faster than peoples ADD.
 
This always gets me. Time dilatation is a frightening concept because 'damn, everyone I knew is dead now', but at the same time, it enables time travel into the future, and it opens the possibility to become a spacefaring species in theory. Hell, even intergalactic travel (Andromeda: 28 years).

If we ever manage to build a ship that can approximate the speed of light, we may also have found the solution to save mankind: by having the ships return at specific timeframes in the future.

Time dilation gives me the creeps its almost in the realms of black magic.

Its because from our human perspective time is always constant right like if I have to clocks and I put them lets in 12pm now and separate them like the 1st clock is in Hong Kong and the other in New York. After 2 hours both clocks should read 2pm.

But with time dilation if we separate those clocks for great distances like over 100 light years according to Scientists one of the clocks will be delayed and basically they wont read the same. As if for one of the clocks time move much slowly.

When ever I think of that it gives me the chills.


I wonder what our future will be will be able to go beyond the Solar System eventually?

Time will tell, Sooner or Later time will tell.
 
Is that Wernher con Braun?

nasa.jpg


Yes. I don't think anyone would accuse the guy of astounding ethics and moral fiber - his high ranking position in the SS alone makes certain of that - but the men you're looking for in regards to the use of slave labor for the manufacturing of his state-owned rockets are Gerhard Degenkolb, Albin Sawatzki and Hans Kammler. Even colleague Arthur Rudolph would bear a greater responsibility for that and was indeed, brought up on war crime charges in the 1980s even after a long and successful career at NASA (hyperlink below).

WvB was an Aerospace Engineer (lol at "rocket scientist" although he also held a PhD in Physics) who coordinated, ran and worked at no extermination or concentration camps, murdered and gave orders to murder no one, supplied (no) Amatol warheads and made the decision to launch armed V-2's at no specific targets. The only launches he directed were during the development phase and they fell harmlessly into the Baltic Sea.

Chicago Tribune: Deported Nazi Scientist Still Has Many Supporters
 
Its had to get excited about space travel when we still burn thousand of pounds of fuel just to break the atmosphere, just like the 50s. Feels like technology has stagnated due to government wanting control over innovation.
 
nasa.jpg


Yes. I don't think anyone would accuse the guy of astounding ethics and moral fiber - his high ranking position in the SS alone makes certain of that - but the men you're looking for in regards to the use of slave labor for the manufacturing of his state-owned rockets are Gerhard Degenkolb, Albin Sawatzki and Hans Kammler. Even colleague Arthur Rudolph would bear a greater responsibility for that and was indeed, brought up on war crime charges in the 1980s even after a long and successful career at NASA (hyperlink below).

WvB was an Aerospace Engineer (lol at "rocket scientist" although he also held a PhD in Physics) who coordinated, ran and worked at no extermination or concentration camps, murdered and gave orders to murder no one, supplied (no) Amatol warheads and made the decision to launch armed V-2's at no specific targets. The only launches he directed were during the development phase and they fell harmlessly into the Baltic Sea.

Chicago Tribune: Deported Nazi Scientist Still Has Many Supporters


Well know that the Nazi's got BTFO by the allies and the Soviets their cities and women raped etc,

But considering what we now know of the aftermath of the WW2 isn't it kinda chilling in a way to be aware really how brilliant the Nanzi era German scientists? Like damn how did those guys even lost the war.

If I am one of the American Generals like Ike or Patton I would feel like "whoah we dodge a bullet"

Although the Americans are not that far behind I think you got Robert Goddard after all but still.

BTW is Elon Musk's Roadster still in Orbit?
 
Euroblocked

Ain't nothing, I got you.

HUNTSVILLE -- At special reunion here for former German rocket scientists whose brainpower put Americans on the Moon, two of the team's leaders were conspicuously absent.

One was Wernher von Braun, who died in the U.S. eight years ago as a popular hero. The other was Arthur L.H. Rudolph, who is alive but banished forever from this country.

While fellow German-born scientists basked here last spring, commemorating the 40th anniversary of their arrival in the U.S. to assume a crucial role in America`s space program, Rudolph was in Hamburg, West Germany.

He agreed last year to leave this country and surrender his citizenship of 30 years. He left quietly rather than stand trial on U.S. Justice Depsrtment charges linking him to persecution of slave laborers at a Nazi rocket factory during World War II. Thousands of the workers died.

The circumstances of Rudolph`s departure have left confusion, anger and, in many corners, calls for his vindication in this city of 160,000.

Once a rural cotton town, Huntsville owes its evolution to rocket technology, and therefore to Von Braun's ''Old German Team,'' 50 of whom still live here.

The city`s gratitude is unmistakable: Its sprawling civic center is named for Von Braun. For Rudolph, often honored as one of the chief architects of the mammoth Saturn V rocket that carried Americans to the Moon, public support seems strong.

''I think this man is innocent,'' said Hugh McInnish, a civilian engineer here at NASA's missile program. ''Whatever you can say about him now, you could have said about him 40 years ago.''

He referred to the U.S. Army interrogating, then approving security clearances for, 118 German scientists brought here as spoils of World War II. Their backgrounds, such as Nazi affiliations, were ignored.

''We picked Rudolph`s brain of everything we could, used him for his talents, rewarded him with high honors and then we turned around and kicked him out,'' McInnish said. ''That is wrong.''

''For the Justice Department to put a technical person like Arthur Rudolph in the same category as (accused Gestapo mass murderer) Klaus Barbie is so distasteful... It's a second-rate cloak-and-dagger effort, in my opinion.''

Rudolph's supporters here have been joined in a letter-writing campaign to Congress and the White House by sympathetic retired Army generals, politicians and officials of NASA, which once awarded Rudolph its highest award, the Distinguished Service Medal. They want Rudolph`s name cleared and the Office of Special Investigations put out of business.
 
Its had to get excited about space travel when we still burn thousand of pounds of fuel just to break the atmosphere, just like the 50s. Feels like technology has stagnated due to government wanting control over innovation.

It's still fun to marvel at space itself.

If for some reason anyone ever finds themselves in Arizona (USA), you've happened upon some of the absolute greatest stargazing locales on the entire planet, no hyperbole. The Grand Canyon area is pretty nice for it on top of being the Grand Canyon but there are three other IDA certified dark sky communities (out of 16 total on the globe) in Flagstaff, Big Park and Sedona. We take preserving the environment and minimizing pollution of all varieties very seriously.

Sedona By Day:

Cathedral_Rock_2.jpg


And Night:

kelli-klymenko-sedona.png


Of course, our human eyes can't make out the Milky Way nearly as bright nor with the clarity and detail high-tech cameras and professional photography shots do, but you will damn well see it - particularly in the summer and during a new or crescent moon - and it's pretty jaw dropping tbh, the whole sky for that matter. My son loves going up there on weekend trips, already thinks he wants to be an astrophysicist haha.
 
Yeah, I got one of those.

He was not only one of the greatest minds but visionaries in all of recorded human history, easily one of the most significant figures of the 20th Century and equally indispensable at different periods to both the Third Reich and post-war American hegemon during global conflicts on the scale and level of World War II and Cold War. Just think about that for a second, to be so god damn relevant that it could almost make Albert Einstein blush.

I'm not really bothered about the USSR's admittedly impressive list of 'first's in space' for a couple different reasons and the Space Age did not start with the USA nor USSR, but in Germany during the 1940s with rockets engineered by Von Braun himself.

The V-2 was the first man-made object to cross beyond the Earth's atmosphere as well as photograph it from outer space. The foundation of Soviet rocket program was dependent on V-2 technology and Sergei Korolev's initial R1/R2 rockets were just larger copycats with heavy assistance from engineers they had taken out of Germany as part of their own post-war spoils.



Not only that, but it's worth noting that Wernher von Braun was initially working for the Department of Defense upon immigration to the United States, he wasn't even transferred to NASA until after the Soviet Union had already successfully launched the first satellite and animal into low Earth orbit. Korolev was most definitely brilliant in his own right but a man-rated SHLLV rocket to the moon was and is still is on a completely different level and he was simply no match for WvB.



If all that weren't enough, he's also quite easily the most important and influential popularizer of space exploration in history with everything from numerous features he wrote in Colliers Magazine to his friendship with famed English science fiction writer Arthur C. Clarke which in turn inspired creative talents on the caliber of Stanley Kubrick, Pink Floyd, David Bowie and Elton John among others, with works that have become timeless artistic contributions to western culture on the whole. Not to mention he also founded the National Space Institute which was the first non-profit space exploration advocacy group of its kind, later merged with the L5 Society and still going.

Look familiar?

2292_image2_big.jpg

vonbraun_early_wheel_concept.jpg


He was awarded the National Medal of Science in 1975 and maybe even should've received the Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work as a Civil Rights activist. It sounds like a complete joke, but the dude actually moved real weight and had an incredible amount of pull at the highest levels. It isn't as if he'd of been out of a job had NASA decided to move the Marshall facility out of Alabama due to its abhorrent record on race - he was the greatest aerospace engineer of all-time - WvB didn't have to do a damn thing.

Wv_B1.jpg

Wv_B2.jpg


God Tier Genius.

618px-S-IC_engines_and_Von_Braun.jpg

An exceptional life. It's incredibly humbling to realize it only took 60 years to go from the first Wright Brothers flight to Saturn V's launch.
 
Its had to get excited about space travel when we still burn thousand of pounds of fuel just to break the atmosphere, just like the 50s. Feels like technology has stagnated due to government wanting control over innovation.

Eh, its more along the lines of stagnation due to technological limitations. Every other engine type that has been tried so far has failed, or not lived up to expectations. Getting to space is no easy task, so sticking with what we know works for now is our best, and only, option.
 
I wonder if he is the only Nazi, the Americans took for their knowledge of science and engineering. This one man can not possibly have done all that work himself.

Von Braun had a team of Germans that he requested the Americans to work with him. American rocket scientists for NASA pretty much 'sucked' until Von Braun came along with his V-2 experience. Lots of Germans in the 'Manhattan Project' (Atom Bomb). Not Nazis though -- Jewish.

Recommend to watch. "The Landing", 2017.
"A faux documentary exploring what really happened to the fabled Apollo 18 mission, the last US mission to the moon in 1973 (?), including interviews with witnesses in 1998 that marked the disaster's 25th anniversary."

 
Top Center. Bottom Center.

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<36>

Von Braun had a team of Germans that he requested the Americans to work with him. American rocket scientists for NASA pretty much 'sucked' until Von Braun came along with his V-2 experience. Lots of Germans in the 'Manhattan Project' (Atom Bomb). Not Nazis though -- Jewish.

Recommend to watch. "The Landing", 2017.
"A faux documentary exploring what really happened to the fabled Apollo 18 mission, the last US mission to the moon in 1973 (?), including interviews with witnesses in 1998 that marked the disaster's 25th anniversary."



There is this new show called Strange Angels. Have either of you heard of this? It is apparently about this other guy named Jack Parsons. He is another prominent rocket engineer. So who was the bigger deal Jack Parsons, or your boy Werner Von Braun?

 
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