The "Dutch Style" of Kickboxing

[Kid Liquid]

I remember during a recent UFC broadcast (I think it was Reem v Lesnar), Rogan made a comment like "The Dutch Style of Kickboxing has really proven itself to be the best out there right now. For whatever reason they've really figured it out."

Looking at K1 results, you'd see similar proof to this claim. What exactly is the "dutch style" though? Simply Dutch Fighters modifying other forms of Kickboxing and MT, or is it evolving into something all its own.

 

[millasur]

Generally (open to correction) I believe this form to be one utilising coming in behind a barrage of punches, therefore hiding the devastating leg kick that will finish the combo. It's hard to remember / see / consider low leg kicks when you're trying to not get your head taken off.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

Yeah, as rob kaman put it simply once: "It's about making combinations with hands and legs."...Lots of boxing and lowkicks, always in combinations, sometimes with the surprise highkick or flying knee <---OK, of course It goes much deeper than that, but in the most simplest terms that's what it is. There are elbows and knees, but they aren't utilized nearly as much as punches and kicks. There is also much more moving around the ring laterally. Dutch kickboxing is a mix of various karate styles, english boxing and Muay Thai. It's a very aggressive and devastating style if used right (see ramon dekkers)

It's is different from (traditional) Muay Thai in alot of ways, not saying MT doesn't have combos, but the main focus is different and more about single powerful strikes and counters from all striking weapons, often times waiting for your opponent and picking clear shots instead of making combinations to open up your opponent. There is also a strong focus on clinch wrestling. It's more defensive-minded than the above. It's about waiting and probing, attacking, gauging the opponents reaction, defending then countering...and It tends to be slower paced.

Most international kickboxers know and use a little bit of both, but if you want to see a stark contrast in styles, watch a dutch kickboxing match, then watch a Muay Thai fight in Thailand.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

Here's a fairly good example of a Dutch kickboxer vs. a Muay Thai guy. Notice the different ways they move.

 

[ImPitPatPuncher]

Most dutch K-1 fighters have also played soccer for an amount of time in their youth.
Soccer is our biggest sport.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

The dutch guy lost in that particular vid i posted, but that doesn't mean that Dutch KB isn't as good. Oftentimes a dutch KB guy will overwhelm and even KO MT guys earlier in a fight due to their high workrate and aggression, especially the MT guys who are primarily counter fighters who feel out and read their opponents over time, but usually as the fight goes on past the 2nd or 3rd round it goes more in favor of the MT guy.

^again these are just broad generalizations, when it comes down to it, it will depend on the individual and his gameplan. And the rules/scoring they are fighting in.

As far as MMA goes, I'd take neither, not even the dutch combos...i'd just take boxing haha, then i'd utilize some kicks and MT clinch to supplement.

 

[shinkyoku]

Dutch kickboxing is historically a mix of kyokushin (mostly) karate, muay thai and boxing. The reason being that most (or at least a significant number) of the old big gyms or their founders started out in karate and switched to thaiboxing, but without thai trainers they mostly learned during short trips to thailand and otherwise supplemented with their karate skills and with native boxing.

Generally, it is thaiboxing with a greater focus on punches (often in drilled combos, followed by a lowkicks) and footwork. And less focus on clinch.

 

[Mumrik]

Looking at K1 results, you'd see similar proof to this claim.

You need to remember that Thai athletes generally don't come that big and that the ones that did have the size had a hard time getting into K-1 Max.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

The reason being that most (or at least a significant number) of the old big gyms or their founders started out in karate and switched to thaiboxing, but without thai trainers they mostly learned during short trips to thailand and otherwise supplemented with their karate skills and with native boxing.

Thx for the info, makes sense, i've always wondered why their style of Muay Thai was so drastically different from what the rest of the world considered as Muay Thai. Their base is Karate and there aren't any Thai trainers in Holland, at least, as far as i know....

Their timing is different, their rhythm, movement, combos, everything. They don't wai kru/ram muay, play traditional music, or do any sort of traditional Thai rituals. Even their techniques are different.

I remember watching an old Chakuriki video with Thom Harinck, everyone was wearing shorts with Thai script but they were doing japanese rituals like rei and standing at attention, saying "osu", counting in Japanese etc. It was so strange.

 

[shinkyoku]

You need to remember that Thai athletes generally don't come that big and that the ones that did have the size had a hard time getting into K-1 Max.

I think he refered to the success of Dutch fighters -who generally have dutch kickboxing as background (Semmy being an exception), vs kick&thaiboxers from the rest of the world. Not just Thai thaiboxers.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

It seems like the only people there are for Dutch K-1 fighters to fight are, mostly, other Dutch K-1 fighters, those guys are so big. So that could explain their success. And K-1 was originally openweight before they introduced the middleweights, and recently the super lightweights.

The middleweights is a mixed bag of countries with the Italian Petrosyan being the champ, but the super lightweights are dominated by Japanese fighters.

Spoiler

when it should actually be dominated by Thais

 

[Mumrik]

I think he refered to the success of Dutch fighters -who generally have dutch kickboxing as background (Semmy being an exception), vs kick&thaiboxers from the rest of the world. Not just Thai thaiboxers.

I know. Those are the two premier kickboxing nations though and since Thais are small, the Dutch were kind of destined to rule the heavier classes.

 

[Jukai]

Neat information on the Kyokushin guys switching to Thai and boxing and how dutch kickboxing game to be. Eerily similar with the Shorin/Shito guys and American kickboxing.

I always thought that their style kind of developed the way it did because their tournaments were very different. Muay Thai tournaments are mostly scored with kicks and power shots, so they're very pot-shotty and kicking oriented... where most European kickboxing, everything is scored equally so faster combo punching is preferable over super strong kicks.

Any truth to that thought? That's 100% assumption, no factual basis to that.

 

[FokaiMuayThai]

^ I'd say that's accurate, pot-shotty is an interesting way to describe it, but it's not incorrect. MT is as much a game of staying in balance and seeming calm and "in control" as it is landing shots. The highest scoring techniques are hard kicks and knees landed anywhere above the waist, it's an even better score if the guy is knocked off balance or otherwise affected.

low kicks aren't scored high unless you can manage to make your opponent wince/back away or even better -sweep your opponent's feet from under him, then that's a good score. Legal throws (foot trips) from the clinch are a hit or miss depending on how they're executed, you kind of have to make it look effortless like your opponent tripped over himself instead of you lifting him up or otherwise manhandling him. That would give you a decent score.

Traditional scoring doesn't give much credit to landed punches (& elbows) unless they make the guy retreat, or stumble backwards, or a knockdown is scored, then it's a decent point... outside of Thailand they give alot more love to punches, but less love to clinch techniques.

I'm not sure, but i think K-1 style scoring counts up the number of strikes landed like conventional boxing. So it makes sense that flurries are thrown to rack up the score.

 

[MisterT]

While I do think that Dutch Kickboxing is a better style suited for MMA, you cannot use it's dominance in K1 to prove it's better than traditional Muay Thai. K1 doesn't allow elbows, two-handed knees, and also doesn't score more points for kicks. Both styles generally come with different rulesets.

That being said, Dutch Kickboxing is a bit more boxing oriented and offers greater protection to the fighter's centerline (since most traditional Thai fighters choose to stand in a more squared position). Personally, in a MMA fight, I'd elect to use boxing mixed in with elbows (lethal combo IMO) with the occasional low kicks but, as history has shown us, it's not the art, it's the practitioner that matters.

 

[Muay o Muay]

Some good posts guys. There's also a 'dutch style ' thread running in the k1 & kickboxing forum!

 

[DaGenius]

Dutch style kick boxing is a very good striking form for MMA. As far as what it is, style wise, it is exactly what they say it is.."kick boxing". They focus mainly on punch and kick combos. Essentially dutch style IS K-1. Contrary to what untrained people may say, it is very different from muay thai as Dutch style doesnt do much with Elbow, Clinch and knee strikes.

On a different note I am so glad to hear it called by its proper name "Dutch Kickboxing" as opposed to Dutch Muay Thai.

 

[Kid Liquid]

Is Overeem an example of the Dutch style being effective in MMA?

 

[rms13]

Is Overeem an example of the Dutch style being effective in MMA?

I think he's a Dutch guy who is a good example of Muay Thai being used effectively in MMA. He spends most of his training time in Thailand and his signature move is the knee to the head out of the clinch which is pure Muay Thai

 

[Discipulus]

Is Overeem an example of the Dutch style being effective in MMA?

No, not really. Overeem is certainly a Dutch Thai boxer, but his style is not really the Dutch style, if you know what I mean. He's not a combination puncher, he doesn't throw a huge amount of kicks or punches in general, and his main weapon is his clinch and knees. The Dutch style is more about combination boxing used to set up devastating low kicks, as well as using the clinch to shove your opponent off-balance and set up a high kick. Overeem doesn't do either of those things.

Melvin Manhoef is a much better example of the Dutch style being used effectively in MMA. He's not the best possible example, because his record isn't stellar, but I think in the future you'll likely see more skilled European kickboxers transition into MMA before it's too late in their careers.

The situation is similar to that of wrestlers in the US. There's not much of a career to be had wrestling, so people with good wrestling pedigrees now very often move into MMA. As the big kickboxing organizations kind of fall apart, you might very well see more skilled kickboxers deciding that MMA is the place to be. I'd love to see it.

Edit: Although I'd also really like to see kickboxing survive and make a comeback.