The Arm In Guillotine

DushanS94

DushanS94

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Can someone good at this move (Rmongler I am looking at you) walk me through their favorite process of finishing it, setups and recounters? I want to add it to my arsenal and there is not a lot of really precise material online. The finish is what I'm looking for the most.


Thanks in advance guys.
 
The arm in guillotine is my favorite guillotine. I like all of the control that it offers and it's great to chain with other arm in techniques and to sweep and pass. The finish takes time though and I haven't seen a lot of good videos on it online.

Let's say you're choking them with your right arm. One thing you really want to do is keep your left elbow tight to your side. It keeps their trapped arm close and keeps their elbow open. Anytime their elbow is open they are pretty weak and that means your own elbow is close to your side, which makes you pretty strong. If you're attacking the choke from the front headlock or something and you "reach in" too far and open your elbows up you could end up in trouble.

When you finish the choke, much like other guillotines, you want to be on your side and not flat on your back. Instead of arching back, do a side crunch as if you were putting their forehead into your pocket. So right arm choking, on your right hip, left elbow close, doing an oblique crunch, putting their forehead into your right pocket. You want to get the lower part of your forearm under their throat and actually you can even use the tip ridge of your wrist or even the top of your thumb. You can even use your right hip bone underneath your grip to reinforce it. You want it to feel very shallow. It should almost feel like their head is about to pop out and you should be able to see the lower half of the back of their head. It can be a slow burning choke and it doesn't tend to produce the fast taps that the high elbow guillotine causes. But it's very strong once you get the pressure down. Keep your far leg high up on their back in case they try to roll or flip out so you can ride to the mount.

This is probably the best video I've seen for the finish on youtube. Jeff Glover probably has the best arm-in guillotines going as far as pure grappling. He's great to watch for film study. Him, Murilo Santana, and Dillon Danis. Sadly I can't think of many more in pure grappling that use the arm-in guillotine all that much. The high elbow guillotine and some other no arm guillotine variations are sort of the craze now. Rightly so. The high elbow is awesome. Jeff Glover actually was all over the high elbow guillotine and then started working the arm-in also after looking at the benefits. Also check out Renzo Gracie or Joe Daddy for mma guys that have good arm-in guillotines.

 
Gambledub said:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1v7JVsf53AFYbBBDY4ZTIBCNDt1C7A-gSSfCyzXtBT1s/edit?usp=sharing

doesn't dwelve very deeply into the setups or finishes, but there should hopefully be some stuff that helps. Especially in regards to the feet positions and follow up sweeps/submissions.
Click to expand...

I love you. I owe you a beer if we're ever in the same area.

mataleaos said:
The arm in guillotine is my favorite guillotine. I like all of the control that it offers and it's great to chain with other arm in techniques and to sweep and pass. The finish takes time though and I haven't seen a lot of good videos on it online.

Let's say you're choking them with your right arm. One thing you really want to do is keep your left elbow tight to your side. It keeps their trapped arm close and keeps their elbow open. Anytime their elbow is open they are pretty weak and that means your own elbow is close to your side, which makes you pretty strong. If you're attacking the choke from the front headlock or something and you "reach in" too far and open your elbows up you could end up in trouble.

When you finish the choke, much like other guillotines, you want to be on your side and not flat on your back. Instead of arching back, do a side crunch as if you were putting their forehead into your pocket. So right arm choking, on your right hip, left elbow close, doing an oblique crunch, putting their forehead into your right pocket. You want to get the lower part of your forearm under their throat and actually you can even use the tip ridge of your wrist or even the top of your thumb. You can even use your right hip bone underneath your grip to reinforce it. You want it to feel very shallow. It should almost feel like their head is about to pop out and you should be able to see the lower half of the back of their head. It can be a slow burning choke and it doesn't tend to produce the fast taps that the high elbow guillotine causes. But it's very strong once you get the pressure down. Keep your far leg high up on their back in case they try to roll or flip out so you can ride to the mount.

This is probably the best video I've seen for the finish on youtube. Jeff Glover probably has the best arm-in guillotines going as far as pure grappling. He's great to watch for film study. Him, Murilo Santana, and Dillon Danis. Sadly I can't think of many more in pure grappling that use the arm-in guillotine all that much. The high elbow guillotine and some other no arm guillotine variations are sort of the craze now. Rightly so. The high elbow is awesome. Jeff Glover actually was all over the high elbow guillotine and then started working the arm-in also after looking at the benefits. Also check out Renzo Gracie or Joe Daddy for mma guys that have good arm-in guillotines.

Click to expand...


Thanks a lot for the in depth explanation. If I am choking with my right arm; should I also try to bring my right elbow to my side as well? Obviously his head is in the way, but is this the concept? Both elbows tucked at my side?
 
mataleaos said:
The arm in guillotine is my favorite guillotine. I like all of the control that it offers and it's great to chain with other arm in techniques and to sweep and pass. The finish takes time though and I haven't seen a lot of good videos on it online.

Let's say you're choking them with your right arm. One thing you really want to do is keep your left elbow tight to your side. It keeps their trapped arm close and keeps their elbow open. Anytime their elbow is open they are pretty weak and that means your own elbow is close to your side, which makes you pretty strong. If you're attacking the choke from the front headlock or something and you "reach in" too far and open your elbows up you could end up in trouble.

When you finish the choke, much like other guillotines, you want to be on your side and not flat on your back. Instead of arching back, do a side crunch as if you were putting their forehead into your pocket. So right arm choking, on your right hip, left elbow close, doing an oblique crunch, putting their forehead into your right pocket. You want to get the lower part of your forearm under their throat and actually you can even use the tip ridge of your wrist or even the top of your thumb. You can even use your right hip bone underneath your grip to reinforce it. You want it to feel very shallow. It should almost feel like their head is about to pop out and you should be able to see the lower half of the back of their head. It can be a slow burning choke and it doesn't tend to produce the fast taps that the high elbow guillotine causes. But it's very strong once you get the pressure down. Keep your far leg high up on their back in case they try to roll or flip out so you can ride to the mount.

This is probably the best video I've seen for the finish on youtube. Jeff Glover probably has the best arm-in guillotines going as far as pure grappling. He's great to watch for film study. Him, Murilo Santana, and Dillon Danis. Sadly I can't think of many more in pure grappling that use the arm-in guillotine all that much. The high elbow guillotine and some other no arm guillotine variations are sort of the craze now. Rightly so. The high elbow is awesome. Jeff Glover actually was all over the high elbow guillotine and then started working the arm-in also after looking at the benefits. Also check out Renzo Gracie or Joe Daddy for mma guys that have good arm-in guillotines.

Click to expand...


Great explanation.

The arm in is everywhere, people will give it to you for free. Always chin strap people, it acts like a jab, and keeps them in a defensive mindset... And I actually choke them with one hand and using the top of my thumb... The second hand it's only there for reinforcment, but it's rarely needed. It should be called the chinstrap choke.

It's all about lowering the top of their head with your arm and crunching while beeing on your side.

The only problem for me is that some times they beat me to the punch and pass to my side before y can throw my leg over them... Marcelotine wins in that regard... but arm in is waaaayyyy easier to get.
 
Anthas said:
Great explanation.

The arm in is everywhere, people will give it to you for free. Always chin strap people, it acts like a jab, and keeps them in a defensive mindset... And I actually choke them with one hand and using the top of my thumb... The second hand it's only there for reinforcment, but it's rarely needed. It should be called the chinstrap choke.

It's all about lowering the top of their head with your arm and crunching while beeing on your side.

The only problem for me is that some times they beat me to the punch and pass to my side before y can throw my leg over them... Marcelotine wins in that regard... but arm in is waaaayyyy easier to get.
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Those are so,e great added details. If I don't get the leg over in time and they start to pass towards the side of their trapped arm then I like to switch to a no-gi brabo (d'arce) choke. If you have shorter arms it's not very easy to lock from that angle. But if your arms are longer and you can do it then as they move in that direction they will cinch themselves deeper in, and you just stay on your hip and walk into them and trap their legs. I first started seeing that from Jeff Glover too. He had Geo locked up like that pretty tight with that adcc last year but wasn't able to drop Geo down onto his side so he ended up letting go.

DushanS94 said:
Thanks a lot for the in depth explanation. If I am choking with my right arm; should I also try to bring my right elbow to my side as well? Obviously his head is in the way, but is this the concept? Both elbows tucked at my side?
Click to expand...

For sure. As you crunch in your choking elbow should also stay tight and end up down at your hip. Usually the choking arm will end up staying tight but the one trapping their arm is the one that can sometimes float out if you aren't careful. One thing I used to struggle with was what the hell to do with me non choking arm with the arm-in guillotine. After a while you sort of figure out that you don't really need to do anything with it besides keeping it close to yourself. Don't think like you need to choke them with both arms. Just focus on that choking arm and the support arm keeps their arm out and supports up under your choking hand.
 
mataleaos said:
Those are so,e great added details. If I don't get the leg over in time and they start to pass towards the side of their trapped arm then I like to switch to a no-gi brabo (d'arce) choke. If you have shorter arms it's not very easy to lock from that angle. But if your arms are longer and you can do it then as they move in that direction they will cinch themselves deeper in, and you just stay on your hip and walk into them and trap their legs. I first started seeing that from Jeff Glover too. He had Geo locked up like that pretty tight with that adcc last year but wasn't able to drop Geo down onto his side so he ended up letting go.



For sure. As you crunch in your choking elbow should also stay tight and end up down at your hip. Usually the choking arm will end up staying tight but the one trapping their arm is the one that can sometimes float out if you aren't careful. One thing I used to struggle with was what the hell to do with me non choking arm with the arm-in guillotine. After a while you sort of figure out that you don't really need to do anything with it besides keeping it close to yourself. Don't think like you need to choke them with both arms. Just focus on that choking arm and the support arm keeps their arm out and supports up under your choking hand.
Click to expand...

If it supposed to be a blood choke or air choke like the marcelotine? I know when my coach has me in an Arm In Guillotine, I feel like I'm going to pass our really quick. But he has short arms that are massive so I always attributed his success with the guilllotine to be partly because of that.
 
Gambledub, what's it like being the fucking man? Great tutorial, buddy.
 
DushanS94 said:
If it supposed to be a blood choke or air choke like the marcelotine? I know when my coach has me in an Arm In Guillotine, I feel like I'm going to pass our really quick. But he has short arms that are massive so I always attributed his success with the guilllotine to be partly because of that.
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To answer both questions. It's definitely not a strong guy move. Having big strong arms won't hurt your guillotine but it's definitely not needed. I've heard of some people with longer arms saying the guillotine doesn't feel as natural for them as arm triangle style chokes. But there are lots of good guillotiners without big arms.

In my experience the Marcelotine/high elbow hits everything. There are some good videos of people going to sleep on it. The carotids aren't on the sides of the neck like some people think. They're more on the sides of the throat. When your forearm cuts up and into the throat it's usually more than enough to close the blood flow. You can see a good example of that here
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The reason why the 5 or 10 finger guillotine is right on the trachea is because you're choking with such a small surface area that there's not enough of your limb to really hit their arteries. The arm-in guillotine can become an air choke depending on what you're choking with. If you're just using the top ridge of your wrist or thumb then it's more likely to be an airway choke. I've been choked by Glover with his arm-in and it feels very throat crush/trachea choking. But if you end up choking them with the mid to lower part of your forearm then you'll probably hit the arteries also.

Across the board most chokes are all blood chokes. Even a lot of chokes that hit the airway also hit the blood. I can't think of many pure air chokes that are very effective. The 5/10 finger guillotine (t-rex choke) is about the only one I see. Also the short choke (gable grip rnc) depending on how you finish it and if it's shallow enough.
 
I just can't ever get under the frickin chin, and it would be awesome to get good at as I'm really good at the Darce
 
I hate it lol, but thats beacuse I suck at it, really badly, so I always try to go to a HE guillotine, other ways, I simple dont go for it.
 
RabbleRowser said:
I just can't ever get under the frickin chin, and it would be awesome to get good at as I'm really good at the Darce
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Stick with it! That's a killer 1-2 combo to have. One thing that helped me get under the chin was to try to just get my fingers under the chin and then scoot my arm across to deepend the grip. So starting at the smallest and thinnest part of my arm and then sliding it once something is under the chin.
 
mataleaos said:
Stick with it! That's a killer 1-2 combo to have. One thing that helped me get under the chin was to try to just get my fingers under the chin and then scoot my arm across to deepend the grip. So starting at the smallest and thinnest part of my arm and then sliding it once something is under the chin.
Click to expand...


Are you a fan of the pretzel grip or just the normal seatbelt with the arm in?
 
DushanS94 said:
Are you a fan of the pretzel grip or just the normal seatbelt with the arm in?
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Normal seatbelt with the arm in. All the way.

If you like the pretzel grip I say go for it. Everyone's body type and what they like is going to be different. If it works it works. I've messed with the pretzel grip and I was able to choke people with it. I just put in so much time with the normal grip and didn't think that the pretzel grip was so much better for me that it was worth the time to reprogram my muscle memory.
 
RabbleRowser said:
I just can't ever get under the frickin chin, and it would be awesome to get good at as I'm really good at the Darce
Click to expand...

Like @Anthas said, you have to chin strap people. I use the chin strap as positional control from everywhere except from under mount (obviously). When you get a good enough chin strap to where people are getting choked just by the chin strap control itself, game over for them.
 
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