Takedown points

[junco]

I know pretty much nothing about the IBJJF point system (aside from the basic point values of various positions). I was hoping f12 could help me out with a question I had.

Takedowns are 2 points, and guard passing is 3 points.

If you successfully take an opponent down immediately into side control (say, by turning the corner hard on a double leg), are you awarded 5 points total, or just 2 for the takedown?

 

[deadlizard]

I know pretty much nothing about the IBJJF point system (aside from the basic point values of various positions). I was hoping f12 could help me out with a question I had.

Takedowns are 2 points, and guard passing is 3 points.

If you successfully take an opponent down immediately into side control (say, by turning the corner hard on a double leg), are you awarded 5 points total, or just 2 for the takedown?

That's a good question.

To add on to this, what if you take them down and go full mount? Do you get 2 points for TD, 3 points for pass, and 4 points for mount?

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

I know pretty much nothing about the IBJJF point system (aside from the basic point values of various positions). I was hoping f12 could help me out with a question I had.

Takedowns are 2 points, and guard passing is 3 points.

If you successfully take an opponent down immediately into side control (say, by turning the corner hard on a double leg), are you awarded 5 points total, or just 2 for the takedown?

Just two for the take-down, if the guy doesn't establish guard you don't get any points for a pass. It's the act of passing guard that's scored, not the side-control position.

To add on to this, what if you take them down and go full mount? Do you get 2 points for TD, 3 points for pass, and 4 points for mount?

2 for the take-down and 4 for the mount (which is scored as a position, however you got there). As above, nothing for a guard pass unless he played guard and you passed it.

 

[Shemhazai]

IBJJF rules don't give points for side control as a position, just for the act of passing the guard. This is because taking someone down (or reversing them from turtle or bottom side control) into side control has zero combat value, and they'd much rather you battle the legs for a few minutes first after getting on top.

 

[esteven]

That's a good question.

To add on to this, what if you take them down and go full mountu Do you get 2 points for TD, 3 points for pass, and 4 points for mount?

My phone is being a pain, so I don't feel like posting the link to the rules PDF. However . . .

You don't get passing points unless you actually get passed their guard. If you take down to side control, then you only get two points for the takedown. In the case of going to mount, you would get the takedown points PLUS the position points, but again no guard pass points, since there was never a guard established for you to pass. The same goes for going straight to KOB.

 

[junco]

Just two for the take-down, if the guy doesn't establish guard you don't get any points for a pass. It's the act of passing guard that's scored, not the side-control position.
2 for the take-down and 4 for the mount (which is scored as a position, however you got there). As above, nothing for a guard pass unless he played guard and you passed it.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess the whole idea of awarding points for a pass hinges on what the ref considers a "guard," which could be arbitrary in a lot of cases.

For example, if I take my opponent down immediately into side control (for which I am awarded 2 points) and he begins recomposing his guard, at what point am I then eligible for guard passing points (assuming I get past his partially recomposed guard)?

A fully established half guard or closed guard are fairly obvious, but if my opponent pummeled a leg over my arm in an attempt to recompose guard, and I immediately pass it, does this then constitute a "pass?"

 

[Kozbot]

the "pass" being scored as the move and not the position is so silly. also pulling guard and not giving up points is silly as well.

 

[deadlizard]

the "pass" being scored as the move and not the position is so silly. also pulling guard and not giving up points is silly as well.

I would vote for eliminating the sweep points and just implement the side control points.

KOB is a position that is scored, so why not side control?

 

[rarmonio8920]

I've always thought it was strange that they awarded points for a guard pass rather than going to side control. Does anyone know the underlying rationale for it?

 

[Calibur]

I would vote for eliminating the sweep points and just implement the side control points.

KOB is a position that is scored, so why not side control?

because KOB, like full mount, gives you two free hands to strike. The points were designed to account for the damage you would be doing if punches were an option. At least before BJJ went from being a martial art to a niche sport with no real direction.

 

[refugee]

I confuse between points score for sweep vs reversal. we get points for sweep but not for reversal? why?

 

[Calibur]

I confuse between points score for sweep vs reversal. we get points for sweep but not for reversal? why?

I've been doing this shit for over a decade and I still don't know why.

 

[lechien]

I confuse between points score for sweep vs reversal. we get points for sweep but not for reversal? why?

BJJ is centered around the guard.

If you pass the guard, you get 3 points.

In order to pass the guard, you need to establish the following positions:

side control.
knee on belly
mount
back mount
back control.

so once such position is establish, you are rewarded 3 points.

A reversal happens when you did not have guard.

So the "logic" is not to reward points for escaping the position.

It is your job to escape therefore you don't points for escaping.

Once could say, you could give 2 points for reversal. but what would the point anyway?

You are still losing by one point.

the problem with rewarding 2 points of reversal would mean people would just turtle up and try to reverse from there so they would be up by points.

Of course, I think we should do away for the gaurd pass and reward for the position.

 

[Calibur]

Once could say, you could give 2 points for reversal. but what would the point anyway?

You are still losing by one point.

the problem with rewarding 2 points of reversal would mean people would just turtle up and try to reverse from there so they would be up by points.

Of course, I think we should do away for the gaurd pass and reward for the position.

The point of giving 2 points for a reversal? A, we wouldn't get into that silly semantic argument of sweep vs reversal. B. you wouldn't be losing as bad as before. C. the person with a good position would be better at keeping it.

BTW, I have no idea why turtlng to get to a position is a bad thing. You just put your opponent in a shitty position. It's your opponents job to escape now. Your logic, not mine.

 

[lechien]

The point of giving 2 points for a reversal? A, we wouldn't get into that silly semantic argument of sweep vs reversal. B. you wouldn't be losing as bad as before. C. the person with a good position would be better at keeping it.

BTW, I have no idea why turtlng to get to a position is a bad thing. You just put your opponent in a shitty position. It's your opponents job to escape now. Your logic, not mine.

I was posting the general opinion on the difference because the dude asked.

Not that I agree with it.

I guess turtling up would mean you hit elbows in the back of the head etc..

But some mma guys used it quiet successfully.

 

[Calibur]

because no one gets punched in the face while using guard.

 

[lechien]

You already the answer.
In the guard, you can sweep, submit, even get up.
In turtle, there are ways of doing such moves as well.
IBJJF does not recognise as a guard.

 

[Calibur]

You already the answer.
In the guard, you can sweep, submit, even get up.
In turtle, there are ways of doing such moves as well.
IBJJF does not recognise as a guard.

and in turtle you can do the same, except one of the results they will not acknowledge if you do it from turtle. Your using a circular argument.

IBJJF doesnt give points for turtle because it's a bad position
It's a bad position because you dont get points for it in IBJJF


meh, whatever.

I could have used your opinion in this thread I made way back when. Feel free to post your opinion in there. Believe it or not, yours is unique.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/f12/true-false-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-based-guard-1066358/

 

[KarateFist]

giving points for reversal would just lead to guys on top being super conservative with their attacks

 

[KarateFist]

you can't count turtle as a guard because first of all, you're in a fucking turtle position and second of all, there would be a whole bunch of retarded scoring scenarios that would occur from awarding sweep points from turtle