!*!Sweeps and Highschool Wrestling*!*

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OtherWhiteMeat

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I was wondering, Ive started my first year of folk-style wrestling for my highschool, if learning some jiu jitsu sweeps would be a good idea (like when the guy is trying to pin me) or if Im just an idiot. And if it is a sane idea, which ones would be best? Thanks

EX. During Lesnar Cain fight when Brock got the takedown and Cain used butterfly guard to get back up
 
This is a bad idea simply because of how wrestling matches are scored. When you are on your back, the other guy is scoring points and/or could pin you. When you get taken down in wrestling you want to get your back off the mat as soon as possible. Because of this Jiu Jitsu sweeps would not be practical and probably cause you to lose the match.
 
If you get taken down and the guy is climbing your legs to try and pin you, perhaps a butterfly type sweep would be useful. However, it's not worth the risk to try and set up.
 
Quantum Guard is your only option, imo.

Just kidding.

If you can pull it off without getting pinned, maybe a half guard sweep could do the trick? I was thinking Butterfly sweep as well. Hell, pull a Saku and use a double-wrist lock/kimura to sweep and pin, eh?
 
There are situations off a scramble or near stalemate where you can pull off a sweep and there are other situations that it may work. The problem is if you get caught you will be behind very quickly if not pinned all together.

Usually the guys that can pull off sweep like moves are already good wrestlers. You cannot hope to just have a pull guard and sweep game in HS wrestling. You will have to be adept on your feet and from the refs position, both top and bottom.

Leg riding will be natural for you if you can figure out the single grapevine but double grapes (i.e back mount) is something you will already be comfortable with.


I will see if I can find a vid of a college wrestler with a funky style that basically pulls off a sweep.

***EDIT***
Here is a vid: 157 Matt Cathell vs Trent Weatherman | Iowa St. vs Kent St. on Flowrestling Check 1:22 of this vid and this is against a wrestler from Iowa state, one of the top programs in the Country. Its not so much a sweep but he almost gets one during the exchange, but it is basically a half guard pull and back take for 2 points.

I also created a whole thread about this kid since he was so fun to watch.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/funky-kent-state-kid-1420635/
 
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knoxpk said:
There are situations off a scramble or near stalemate where you can pull off a sweep and there are other situations that it may work. The problem is if you get caught you will be behind very quickly if not pinned all together.

Usually the guys that can pull off sweep like moves are already good wrestlers. You cannot hope to just have a pull guard and sweep game in HS wrestling. You will have to be adept on your feet and from the refs position, both top and bottom.

Leg riding will be natural for you if you can figure out the single grapevine but double grapes (i.e back mount) is something you will already be comfortable with.


I will see if I can find a vid of a college wrestler with a funky style that basically pulls off a sweep.

***EDIT***
Here is a vid: 157 Matt Cathell vs Trent Weatherman | Iowa St. vs Kent St. on Flowrestling Check 1:22 of this vid and this is against a wrestler from Iowa state, one of the top programs in the Country. Its not so much a sweep but he almost gets one during the exchange, but it is basically a half guard pull and back take for 2 points.

I also created a whole thread about this kid since he was so fun to watch.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/funky-kent-state-kid-1420635/
Click to expand...

Quality post, plus that kid is a monster. Unorthodox for sure, but effective on the mat.
 
BJJ sweeps are based off of full or half guard situations, which is somewhere you don't want to be in a wrestling match. I've heard stories that Cael Sanderson once used the X-Guard, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
Uchi Mata said:
If you get taken down and the guy is climbing your legs to try and pin you, perhaps a butterfly type sweep would be useful. However, it's not worth the risk to try and set up.
Click to expand...

This. One of my college teammates did this before anyone knew what BJJ was (mid 80s): I could always take him down to his butt, but he used inside hooks and an underhook to escape (usually not to sweep). This is the only useful sweep I can think of, and I would use it only after being taken down to your butt.
 
In folkstyle maybe, but if you ever wanted to compete in freestyle its 2 points for back exposure to your opponent. And obviously the big chance of a pin.
 
knoxpk said:
There are situations off a scramble or near stalemate where you can pull off a sweep and there are other situations that it may work. The problem is if you get caught you will be behind very quickly if not pinned all together.

Usually the guys that can pull off sweep like moves are already good wrestlers. You cannot hope to just have a pull guard and sweep game in HS wrestling. You will have to be adept on your feet and from the refs position, both top and bottom.

Leg riding will be natural for you if you can figure out the single grapevine but double grapes (i.e back mount) is something you will already be comfortable with.


I will see if I can find a vid of a college wrestler with a funky style that basically pulls off a sweep.

***EDIT***
Here is a vid: 157 Matt Cathell vs Trent Weatherman | Iowa St. vs Kent St. on Flowrestling Check 1:22 of this vid and this is against a wrestler from Iowa state, one of the top programs in the Country. Its not so much a sweep but he almost gets one during the exchange, but it is basically a half guard pull and back take for 2 points.

I also created a whole thread about this kid since he was so fun to watch.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/funky-kent-state-kid-1420635/
Click to expand...

^ This. And KnoxPk, I always find your posts on wrestling ultra-informative; bravo bro.
 
Well, my expierences with jiu jitsu and wrestling is that it doesn't translate too well. I can hold side control quite well and its really difficult for people to escape my pins. Butterflyguard works alright as long as they are a bit stretched so you can hip bump. Half guard works quite well actually, its really easy to take their backs for some reason and sweeps work well from half also. Basic judo throws seem to work ok, but its not that great, I am having second thoughts about implementing judo throws before I get a good grip on wrestling takedowns. Fullguard really doesn't work too well because they can smother and pin you from there.

Now for a little off topic, is mount worth it? It seems that they may be able to escape eventually. I always liked being in side control rather than mount (as in escape from).
 
This has little to do with the thread, but judo is the most approachable MA for wrestling.
 
a variation of a half guard sweep is used pretty often in college and high school wrestling.

try things out in practice and see if anything works for you
 
knoxpk said:
***EDIT***
Here is a vid: 157 Matt Cathell vs Trent Weatherman | Iowa St. vs Kent St. on Flowrestling Check 1:22 of this vid and this is against a wrestler from Iowa state, one of the top programs in the Country. Its not so much a sweep but he almost gets one during the exchange, but it is basically a half guard pull and back take for 2 points.

I also created a whole thread about this kid since he was so fun to watch.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f12/funky-kent-state-kid-1420635/
Click to expand...

I don't want to sound like one of those guys who says "that's BJJ" whenever something remotely looks like BJJ, but seriously it looks like that kid is a wrestler who just does BJJ on the ground. In all the wrestling that I've done and seen, I've never seen someone that doesn't bail out to belly down when it's clear he's taken down. This kid is literally sitting in open guard and looking to come around to the back. If I was a coach it would drive me insane! And then in top position he gets an over/under head and arm grip? I've only ever seen that in no gi bjj/submission grappling, that's totally not what I learned in wrestling.

I don't know if he actually does train BJJ, but if he doesn't then he's created some funky stuff that's damn similar. Sorry to go down that road, but I wasn't expecting such a remarkable resemblance. I was expecting more of an isolated move as opposed to a whole different approach to mat wrestling.

To the TS, I wouldn't suggest doing what's in that video. Unless you're really really good at it.
 
Bad idea you dont wanna get pinned. If you are looking at other opportunities to up your game, wrestle Greco in the offseason, maybe even try judo in the offseason as well.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
I don't want to sound like one of those guys who says "that's BJJ" whenever something remotely looks like BJJ, but seriously it looks like that kid is a wrestler who just does BJJ on the ground. In all the wrestling that I've done and seen, I've never seen someone that doesn't bail out to belly down when it's clear he's taken down. This kid is literally sitting in open guard and looking to come around to the back. If I was a coach it would drive me insane! And then in top position he gets an over/under head and arm grip? I've only ever seen that in no gi bjj/submission grappling, that's totally not what I learned in wrestling.

I don't know if he actually does train BJJ, but if he doesn't then he's created some funky stuff that's damn similar. Sorry to go down that road, but I wasn't expecting such a remarkable resemblance. I was expecting more of an isolated move as opposed to a whole different approach to mat wrestling.

To the TS, I wouldn't suggest doing what's in that video. Unless you're really really good at it.
Click to expand...

No kidding

I love how he was sinking that left hook.
 
SuperSuperRambo said:
I don't want to sound like one of those guys who says "that's BJJ" whenever something remotely looks like BJJ, but seriously it looks like that kid is a wrestler who just does BJJ on the ground. In all the wrestling that I've done and seen, I've never seen someone that doesn't bail out to belly down when it's clear he's taken down. This kid is literally sitting in open guard and looking to come around to the back. If I was a coach it would drive me insane! And then in top position he gets an over/under head and arm grip? I've only ever seen that in no gi bjj/submission grappling, that's totally not what I learned in wrestling.

I don't know if he actually does train BJJ, but if he doesn't then he's created some funky stuff that's damn similar. Sorry to go down that road, but I wasn't expecting such a remarkable resemblance. I was expecting more of an isolated move as opposed to a whole different approach to mat wrestling.

To the TS, I wouldn't suggest doing what's in that video. Unless you're really really good at it.
Click to expand...
I am not sure, this is not HS this is college level vs Iowa State. I think it is pretty much wrestling but with "funk" I have seen some weird stuff from scrambles.

Also the over under from the top Nick Simmons made famous. It is also known as the east side strangle or the east Lansing strangle.

There is a match on Flo with a Fl HS kid doing it pretty well and I have seen some other vids of it working as well.

I agree though, we were always taught to stay under the arms, but that "strangle" turn can be used when the opponent shoots too, I will see if I can find the link.

Found-
140lbs James Green -NJ vs. Pete Baldwin -FL | March 28 on Flowrestling

Baldwin loses the match but gets the strangle at :45 and actually scores with it at 1:20 and was very close to scoring back points.

Other names for the hold "the Simmons" and the "James Fleming" and "The Merkle"
 
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