Theory Strength > Strategy. True?

[Glupert]

My Kyokushin coach tells me something along the lines of:

"If you have skill but no strength, you will lose. If you have strength but no skill, you will win."

Is this really what it boils down to? Is physical brawn able to overcome tactical brains? Ever since I switched from Shotokan to Kyokushin, I feel myself better suited for fighting and more confident during sparring. All those years spent on an art that is pure strategy without any strength feel wasted, and one year of an art that prioritises strength over everything else feels like twenty in the other one.

If all these McDojo striking styles like Shotokan, Taekwon-do, ATA, etc just practiced full-intensity, full-contact sparring on a regular basis and encouraged strength training, wouldn't they become respectable fighting styles just like Kyokushin?

I say this because during a sparring night a while back, there was this fat, schlubby blue belt (low rank in Kyokushin) who absolutely beat up a skilled yet very skinny black belt.

 

[Frode Falch]

Kinda yes. But i would ad aggression as well..

If a aggressive power house of a dude, snaps and attack a cardio boxing coach with a pencil neck and little muscle mass, the poor guy will get beat up.

Size matters.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Kinda yes. But i would ad aggression as well..

If a aggressive power house of a dude, snaps and attack a cardio boxing coach with a pencil neck and little muscle mass, the poor guy will get beat up.

Size matters.

Bud im right here.

 

[DoctorTaco]

TS, think about all combat sports as leverage to offset size and strength of an attacker. The better someone is, the larger the lever they have to even the odds against a bigger opponent.

2 years of serious mma and a few ammy fights? I’d favor that guy over an untrained guy who’s 30-40lbs heavier. 6 months training, no fights? Probably could offset 10-20lbs. UFC flyweight champion of the world? 100lbs. Is there any world where Demetrius Johnson wins a fight against The Mountain? No chance.

 

[godhatesacoward]

My Kyokushin coach tells me something along the lines of:

"If you have skill but no strength, you will lose. If you have strength but no skill, you will win."

Is this really what it boils down to? Is physical brawn able to overcome tactical brains? Ever since I switched from Shotokan to Kyokushin, I feel myself better suited for fighting and more confident during sparring. All those years spent on an art that is pure strategy without any strength feel wasted, and one year of an art that prioritises strength over everything else feels like twenty in the other one.

If all these McDojo striking styles like Shotokan, Taekwon-do, ATA, etc just practiced full-intensity, full-contact sparring on a regular basis and encouraged strength training, wouldn't they become respectable fighting styles just like Kyokushin?

I say this because during a sparring night a while back, there was this fat, schlubby blue belt (low rank in Kyokushin) who absolutely beat up a skilled yet very skinny black belt.

strength matters but honestly i your strong for your size and have size added to your frame you can beat unskilled fat heavyweights

 

[godhatesacoward]

strength matters but honestly i your strong for your size and have size added to your frame you can beat unskilled fat heavyweights

*if

 

[Stoic1]

There are no absolutes.

 

[Intermission]

One of the things we learned in martial arts is that technique is derived from strength, not the other way around.

Boxers figured it out too, but it took a number of decades.

 

[shunyata]

Weight classes matter.

Strength, conditioning, speed, and endurance matter at every weight class.

Technique and timing matter immensely.

Not being a dumbass matters too.

 

[ROcknrollracing]

Your coach is correct.
It goes for every sport out there.
To the latter part of your post you actually do not want to spar hard maybe at all. The more you spar hard the greater your chance of injury and thus the inability to keep doing it day after day and get better. Of course hard contact sparring does not have to be going for kill shot but rather pulling your punches so that you do not injure your sparring partners.
Shotokan and tae kwon do are definitely respected or else they would not sell or have lasted as long as they have.
Training for self defense and sport are similar but rather different in certain respects.

 

[period]

Sparring (kumite) is hardly what builds strength – rather, it builds strategy, for it shows you where you are strong and where you aren’t, and how to work around that. In karate terminology, strength training would be hojo undo as far as I know. And as far as I know, the Kyokushin guys have mostly ditched that, even though Mas Oyama seems to have been very big on it. So traditional Goju Ryu would be a better example for a style focusing on strength work.

As far as strength, technique and strategy are concerned, I think they are very closely related, and seeing technique as completely disconnected from strength is counter-productive – but so is the other way around.

In general,

Strength = ability to generate muscular force

In a fighting context however, strength is NEVER felt or shown in isolation, since the opponent is not a weight, he won’t have to be in the expected place at the expected time, and can prevent an attempted form of making contact if he anticipates it correctly.

On the other hand, technique is not “punching air”, either. Rather,

Technique = ability to efficiently generate force on an opponent, using muscular force, gravity, leverage, distance management, timing, anatomical knowledge etc.

Therefore, technique determines how much of your strength you can bring to bear against an opponent, and the other factors in technique are the reason why some people will feel stronger than they are. A truly unskilled opponent will seem much weaker than they are, a highly skilled opponent will seem stronger than they are. I don't know where this idea of "having great, but inefficient technique" comes from: if you cannot use your technique against resisting opponents, you don't have great technique, period. Finally,

Strategy = bringing to bear one’s strengths (as in: advantages) against the opponent’s weaknesses, surprising him whenever possible, while preventing the opponent form bringing their strengths against one’s own weaknesses.

So, if I have perfect strategy, I should be able to cover for any lacks in my technique and for being weaker and smaller. However, that very much means thinking outside the box, and can include things that are very much not tested in the dojo - I'm thinking of Musashi showing up too early or too late for a duel, Gogen Yamaguchi "winning" a match by jumping down onto an opponent from a tree, possibly showing up at their house with a bunch of friends and baseball bats before the fight, or calling in a tactical air strike on the arena instead of showing up there.

 

[WDSTK]

Not sure if already stated but If a stronger big guy gets tired, a weaker, more technical guy can beat him. Ali and Foreman and countless other bouts of somebody of size and strength getting beaten. In some bouts, the size and strength difference was unbelievable. I once sparred a bodybuilder with over 60 lbs on me, mostly of pure muscle. However, I sparred with him late in the sparring session. He was so tired that he could hardly keep his hands up.

 

[godhatesacoward]

al

Not sure if already stated but If a stronger big guy gets tired, a weaker, more technical guy can beat him. Ali and Foreman and countless other bouts of somebody of size and strength getting beaten. In some bouts, the size and strength difference was unbelievable. I once sparred a bodybuilder with over 60 lbs on me, mostly of pure muscle. However, I sparred with him late in the sparring session. He was so tired that he could hardly keep his hands up.

ali and foreman were both big guys though

 

[SandisLL]

My Kyokushin coach tells me something along the lines of:

"If you have skill but no strength, you will lose. If you have strength but no skill, you will win."

Is this really what it boils down to? Is physical brawn able to overcome tactical brains? Ever since I switched from Shotokan to Kyokushin, I feel myself better suited for fighting and more confident during sparring. All those years spent on an art that is pure strategy without any strength feel wasted, and one year of an art that prioritises strength over everything else feels like twenty in the other one.

If all these McDojo striking styles like Shotokan, Taekwon-do, ATA, etc just practiced full-intensity, full-contact sparring on a regular basis and encouraged strength training, wouldn't they become respectable fighting styles just like Kyokushin?

I say this because during a sparring night a while back, there was this fat, schlubby blue belt (low rank in Kyokushin) who absolutely beat up a skilled yet very skinny black belt.

TKD and Shotokan aren't MC dojo styles.
However their training more often is for competitions according certain their rules and unfortunately also scoring rules and practice etc for them.

The same Shotokan, some dojos does loves very high physical conditioning irl , some doesn't cares, some might even use heavy bags for SD training etc ...it depends.

 

[SandisLL]

Weight classes matter.

Strength, conditioning, speed, and endurance matter at every weight class.

Technique and timing matter immensely.

Not being a dumbass matters too.

Ofc. Also planning and speed etc.
Weight class matters damn a lot.
However if you might lull opponent and provoke him to do certain predicted by you attack method and target, you might to use this with intent to counter and follow counters further....

There are ...for example most powerful punches in boxing are full power counters with high precision and timing....
Also for kicks : IMHO most dangerous stuff for DaTech streetz or maybe also MMA is high kick predicted by opponent. Cos there are a lot of methods how to make guy fly under wings and maybe get stomped.. . Plus with high risk to get permanent damages.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

It’s all about penis size imo