So many broken hands in MMA.....

[ipsc shooter]

I wonder why more (or any) MMA fighters do not incorporate hand conditioning into their training. Think of how often someone breaks a hand. I can think of Faber, Bowles, Machida, and others in recent memory. Breaking a hand can mean many months of being on the shelf and not being able to further your career.

That being said, it would seem that professionals would want to make their hands more durable. I have done Shaolin Iron Palm training, and I believe it would be a real asset to pro fighters. First, you make your hands impervious to injury by striking them against another person's body anywhere. Second, it also changes the structure of your hand, makes them feel heavier and harder when striking. It took me a couple of years to complete the training. I realize that there are probably not many people in MMA who are familiar with Iron Palm or how to train for it properly, but we are in the information age, and you would think if somebody like me can find a teacher and do it that these professionals could as well.

 

[Sinister]

There's no hand conditioning that's going to overcome the fact that THIS is why gloves were invented, and 4oz gloves don't do anything to protect the hands. Especially considering that some guys (like Faber) sacrifice clenching their fists for more speed. Fighters who do this in Boxing, with 8oz gloves, also have chronic hand problems (Mayweather, Calzaghe, Malignaggi). So with twice the padding, still problems when you hit a skull with your fist.

 

[Gregolian]

You are hitting a guy's skull, one of the hardest bones in the human body, with these tiny ass bones that have like... an inch of padding at most. Your hands are going to fucking break. BOXERS hands break and they have those gloves they wear. Go punch a cement wall and that probably what it feels like hitting someone's head.


And Shaolin Iron Palm training? Why don't you train something useful, like how to take a shot to the nuts, isn't that what those guys do?

 

[SAAMAG]

There's no need to be an ignorant asshole to the OP.

That said, the reasons why bareknuckle fighters (and mma fighters) break knuckles should be fairly obvious. They are hitting their knuckles on hard bone, and with little to no protection. It comes with the territory. There is no way to make your hands impervious to harm, though you can condition them to be more resilient.

The same process that makes iron palm/fist effective (wolff's law / mechanostat) happens inherently in the practice of striking. Its inherent because the training requires one to hit, and get hit. It's the repeated loads being placed on the bones that causes the phenomena to occur.

I think that the best way to prevent broken knuckles though, is to adjust the striking accordingly, like bare fisted fighters did. Or change one's tactics to use more elbows, knees, open hand strikes, and submissions.

 

[Gregolian]

If there was some crazy technique as the OP says existed to protect people from breaking their knuckles/hands constantly don't you think boxers would have started doing it years ago?

Sure, you can constantly bruise them up and develop really hard bones/re grow area from constant breaks but in 15 years when your career is over you will have the worst arthritis in the world and probably won't be able to button a shirt.

A bone breaking comes down to how weak it is. You have strong bones they won't break. You have weak bones and punch someone in the jaw your bones are gonna break and there isn't much you can do about it other than to hit someone in a different spot. In a barfight if someone swings at another person's jaw the person that gets hit is hurt less cause their jaw will break the first person's hand.

 

[ElKarlo]

If there was some crazy technique as the OP says existed to protect people from breaking their knuckles/hands constantly don't you think boxers would have started doing it years ago?

Sure, you can constantly bruise them up and develop really hard bones/re grow area from constant breaks but in 15 years when your career is over you will have the worst arthritis in the world and probably won't be able to button a shirt.

A bone breaking comes down to how weak it is. You have strong bones they won't break. You have weak bones and punch someone in the jaw your bones are gonna break and there isn't much you can do about it other than to hit someone in a different spot. In a barfight if someone swings at another person's jaw the person that gets hit is hurt less cause their jaw will break the first person's hand.

You can indeed condition your hands to a certain degree. Thing is the pay off is ok, while it does mess up your hands. I used to do hand conditioning, and every winter my hands hurt, while I am only 29.

 

[Steakeater**]

In MMA its best to use textbook amatuer style punches to protect hands

 

[Gregolian]

You can indeed condition your hands to a certain degree. Thing is the pay off is ok, while it does mess up your hands. I used to do hand conditioning, and every winter my hands hurt, while I am only 29.

Exactly, I broke both of my hands in middle school PE (basketball) at different times and every winter the things don't want to work in the cold and I'm only 22.

 

[Da Speeit]

Ive broken both of my hands.

The shit sucks.

 

[Sinister]

In MMA its best to use textbook amatuer style punches to protect hands

Im not sure I agree with this. But it'd take me a while to write out why. I'll do so in the morning.

 

[ipsc shooter]

Perhaps I should have gone into more detail. I was taught how to do this by my teacher who was taught by an 11th generation Taoist master from China. This is from his family style of "kung fu" and Chinese medicine. You start out by warming up. This involves rubbing a specific linament on your hands for 10 minutes. Then you swing your arms for several repetitions. After this you start on a bag filled with mung beans. You strike it with palm of the hand, back of the hand, edge of the hand and then fingertips. You do this for 15 minutes with both hands. Afters several months you start working on a bag filled with gravel. After several months of that you go to a bag filled with steel shot or what some would call ball bearings. When this training is complete you can hit really hard objects with your hands and not damage them because you have changed the internal structure of your hand and your bone density. I have hit brick walls and other hard surfaces with my hands with no harm. I can also make a bird's beak (as in Tai Chi) with my hand and perform fingertip strikes on very hard surfaces with no ill effects. I have no doubts whatsoever that I can hit any human's skull as hard as I can with my hand without harming my hands. I am not trying to beat my chest here and pump myself up as some sort of bad ass, I am just trying to convey information. I would think that an MMA fighter who did the training I have done would have a serious advantage. If nothing else, he wouldn't break his hand. If I were to put on gloves to fight in MMA (I wouldn't, I am too old for that), I would not want my hands taped like the tradition dictates. And I wouldn't worry about my hands.

 

[Gregolian]

Perhaps I should have gone into more detail. I was taught how to do this by my teacher who was taught by an 11th generation Taoist master from China. This is from his family style of "kung fu" and Chinese medicine. You start out by warming up. This involves rubbing a specific linament on your hands for 10 minutes. Then you swing your arms for several repetitions. After this you start on a bag filled with mung beans. You strike it with palm of the hand, back of the hand, edge of the hand and then fingertips. You do this for 15 minutes with both hands. Afters several months you start working on a bag filled with gravel. After several months of that you go to a bag filled with steel shot or what some would call ball bearings. When this training is complete you can hit really hard objects with your hands and not damage them because you have changed the internal structure of your hand and your bone density. I have hit brick walls and other hard surfaces with my hands with no harm. I can also make a bird's beak (as in Tai Chi) with my hand and perform fingertip strikes on very hard surfaces with no ill effects. I have no doubts whatsoever that I can hit any human's skull as hard as I can with my hand without harming my hands. I am not trying to beat my chest here and pump myself up as some sort of bad ass, I am just trying to convey information. I would think that an MMA fighter who did the training I have done would have a serious advantage. If nothing else, he wouldn't break his hand. If I were to put on gloves to fight in MMA (I wouldn't, I am too old for that), I would not want my hands taped like the tradition dictates. And I wouldn't worry about my hands.

I have a serious problem believing all this because if true all the boxers would be doing this. But they aren't.

 

[ipsc shooter]

I saw some of you posting about hurting your hands while doing some conditioning. I must stress that I am not a teacher of this and I am not in any way suggesting anyone try this unless you find a qualified instructor and do it the right way. If you do this the wrong way, you will permanently damage your hands. So please, don't attempt this unless you know someone who knows how, and you are willing to follow instructions explicitly.

 

[Sinister]

I've done Gung Fu, it's still a love of mine, but it just doesn't condition the hands enough for the CONSTANT stress of striking hard things on a routine basis.

A few months in a Boxing, Muay Thai, or even MMA style Gym with routine sparring, mitt work, and full-sized bag work should demonstrate that to anyone who believes otherwise.

 

[ipsc shooter]

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am just conveying a life experience I have gone through and suggested that it would be beneficial for professional fighters. Let me pose it this way: if there was training that an MMA fighter could do that would keep him from breaking his hands, do you think it would be a good idea for an MMA fighter to do said training?

 

[Gregolian]

I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I am just conveying a life experience I have gone through and suggested that it would be beneficial for professional fighters. Let me pose it this way: if there was training that an MMA fighter could do that would keep him from breaking his hands, do you think it would be a good idea for an MMA fighter to do said training?

Yes, and since they still keep breaking their hands every couple fights it leads me to believe that no such thing exists.

 

[ElKarlo]

Exactly, I broke both of my hands in middle school PE (basketball) at different times and every winter the things don't want to work in the cold and I'm only 22.

Woof, man. Yeah I sued to be able to punch and break wooden pallets. Not just those wussy breakable boards. That crap comes back to you, and in grappling you need hand strength, which I think will erode with all the nerve damage.

 

[Gregolian]

Woof, man. Yeah I sued to be able to punch and break wooden pallets. Not just those wussy breakable boards. That crap comes back to you, and in grappling you need hand strength, which I think will erode with all the nerve damage.

Well they work, it's just they hurt like a mofo and I can't grip anything real well in the cold.

 

[ElKarlo]

I have a serious problem believing all this because if true all the boxers would be doing this. But they aren't.

I actually got a bone density test done, and I was at the max ed of the spectrum. Thing is, I still have broken a few bones, it's not like you'll become invincible. Also hitting that hard, even super dense bones will break. So at best you'll be less prone to breaking, but more prone to your hands hurting in winter

 

[Sinister]

Ispc - If it actually existed, yes. But what you're proposing (and saying not trying to convince anyone of, while suggesting the notion) does not exist. In pure self-defense scenarios where a single strike is more likely to neutralize a situation, its not an unreasonable thought. But these situations are not that, they're situations requiring multiple strikes over longer durations, and involving Arts that have been used on Professional levels for many years. Its not never been thought of before, it just doesn't apply as well in a long fight as it does on paper.